Welcome to Unpacking the Digital Shelf, where we explore brand manufacturing in the digital age, [inaudible]
Hi everyone, Peter Crosby here from the Digital Shelf Institute. Thrasio often gets lumped into the Amazon seller aggregator category. But when you talk to them, that's just the, how here's their mission to be the most impactful consumer products company of the next century. A key part of achieving that mission is creating and expanding thousands of global brands at scale. And the man in charge of that part of the mission is our chiro Aronda who brings his experience leading creative at BBD O Facebook MRM, McCann, working with some of the biggest brands in the world. Rob and I dug into the differences between that world and the new one he's in and what it takes to do brand building at the scale and speed of a [inaudible] and what it means to the company's overall mission. So Arturo, thank you so much for joining Rob and me today. Are we your first official podcast at [inaudible]?
Yes you are.
We are honored.
Our pleasure. We had such a great conversation with Carlos and I think several months ago and Rob and I are both, to be honest, I mean, this is, you know, not to make this a softball interview or anything, but we are fanboys of Thrasio, of your model. And so excited about the new trends in e-commerce that you folks are on the, just the leading edge of it's super exciting. So we're delighted you're here.
So your role is
Director of brands brand central Razia. And as, as our audience probably knows because we talk about it a fair amount. You know, you're one of the most exciting new Amazon seller aggregator house of brand companies around today and in a recent Bloomberg article, they described you guys this way. They said Thrace, IZO buys brands for everyday products from small business owners for a typical purchase price of more than a million dollars. It then operates the brand with upgraded marketing, product development and supply chain management or the Bloomberg getting it right. And and how does your role sort of fit into that
Scheme? They're right. There's just a lot more to that story from my perspective, you know, like, and it's really interesting to kind of, you know, take a step beyond that and kind of look at like what's happening within the space within the category. You look at like a lot of the the data out there about what's going on within e-commerce and I'm sure you guys are all familiar with just how explosive the growth has been over the last year and a half. And it's really interesting, like the data showing that this was happening even before the pandemic, you know, we were already trending, you know, like we're at that elbow of the curve of how consumer behavior is actually starting to shift. And you know, I kind of feel like what's happening right now is what's that evolutionary term, like it's like the we're we're right now, we're in like this Cambrian explosion of, you know, what's starting to happen in terms of the relationships that people are having with product and, you know, just purchasing behavior.
And I think one of the things that's really exciting right now is that, you know, there was a point in time where there was this kind of establishment of, you know, how many companies could actually create brands and how a brand and a product could actually come in front of the public. And what's starting to happen now is that it's kind of like this exponential growth of the great American dream, this kind of entrepreneurial kind of mindset, where if you have this idea, you can kind of make it happen. And if you have an idea for a product, all you have to do is be able to kind of find like an amazing connection with some sort of manufacturer, whether they are in Brazil, India, China, wherever, and you can pretty much bringing an idea to life like almost overnight. And when we're in a world like that, where there's that kind of selection, it, it kind of changes things like you look back at, and I know I'm dating myself, but you look at when I was growing up, I had three TV channels to choose from, you know, like now one more than I had now, you look at the amount of selection and like, if you have cable, you've got hundreds, sometimes thousands.
And then even beyond cable on the internet and YouTube, you've got infinite streaming. And so that changes the dynamics, you know, like, you know what it was like when we were growing up, when you watched TV, you had to watch what was given to you. Now, the consumers have the the audiences have the control of what they watch and something similar is happening with econ.
Yeah. Infinite shelf space, infinite channels the, the, the opportunities are huge. It's so excited. And, and that must be part of, I would imagine you've been there a few months now, part of the joy must be meeting with these entrepreneurs that have become part of your brand family who had that vision, right?
Oh, absolutely. Yeah. I mean, the entrepreneurial mindset is incredible and it's, it's amazing to see a company that's, that's made of all these people who want to bring something new to life, and they're excited to kind of get involved and build it from nothing. And even though it's, it's not a clean, perfect process and it is very iterative. It's something that everybody's kind of signed up for. And it's a lot of fun. It's a lot of fun. And the thing is, is that, that kind of entrepreneurial mindset, isn't just internal. It's also with, you know, like the relationships that we're building with our seller community. And, you know, that's something that, you know, the company is very proud of and that's something I'm, I'm very, I'm very excited to kind of build on that just from my perspective, as a, as a creative and as somebody who's kind of working with brands, those brands come from, you know, these kind of visionaries, these, these, these nurturers of these brands, how can we build more of a relationship with them? So that not only the ones that we're working with directly, you know, are, are feeling good about working with us, but how can we actually expand beyond that and make sure that the entire seller community knows that we exist and then we can all help them in some way. And, sorry, I'm trying to be very vague about that. But yeah,
In the nineties, I remember there being a stat that seven 11 had made more millionaires in America than anybody because of the franchise model. So if you're creating a seven 11, you're the business owner and you get the ability to make money and become a millionaire by operating effectively at seven 11. And I just, I've just loved this idea of the Cambrian explosion and American innovation that you guys are driving, which is enabling thousands and thousands of people to become millionaires in this new world of infinite choice. It's so it's very cool. Well,
And, and one thing I do want to, like, it was interesting, like when, when I first heard about like the sellers and how they can come to these, you know, as were described, like these FBA roll-up companies to, to be able to kind of sell their product you know, I, I do want to be careful about like how we're articulating that, because number one, like that makes it sound like a transaction, you know, and this isn't just a pure transaction. This is, it's a relationship, not just between, you know, you know, a company like Tarascio and the seller but a relationship and the responsibility that the seller had with this, this brand, this product, and you're passing that relationship on and you know, trying to kind of nurture it. And that's something that takes a lot of trust. You know, it's, it's almost like, I mean, my kids are not in college yet, but I imagine one day, you know, when they go to college, you know, like I'm going to want to make sure that the place that they go to as a place that I feel really good about and prep for them to go to, and you want to trust that they're in good hands.
And then like the amount of money can be thrown around about like the, the sellers, but most of the sellers when they're selling their product, it's not that they're selling it to become a millionaire. You know, they're, they're selling it so that they can actually figure out how to take their next step in, you know, their own career. They have this vision. Sometimes they've gotten the product and the brand to a certain point, and they know that the next step needs more scale than they can offer with the resources they have. And so they feel good that we can provide that Benny
And the community orientation that you've developed net really feeds into the three IZO brand in the world of the sellers. But there's also the brands that are under the throttle umbrella from the, from the point of view of the shopper. And you have a really fascinating background in branding and BVDO at Facebook at MRM McCann. And for a long time, you focused on some of the most iconic brands in the world now [inaudible] is, is almost the opposite. So if Proctor and gamble has tied through SEO has, I mean, well, over 25,000 individual skews, now some of the brands or individuals do, some of the brands are very small skew, but it's just a ton of brands that make up the 25,000 ski portfolio. And it kind of begs the question, what does it even mean to be a brand from that perspective Carlos Cashman, your, your founder CEO said on the, when we interviewed him on the podcast, he said, reviews are the new brand. But of course it's, you know, I, I know, I know he didn't mean that exactly, literally, but it's more complicated now. So I'd like to get into what, what, what is the brand for each of these products across the three IZO portfolio as you're building this up?
Yeah. I mean, that's, I think if you ask a hundred people that question, you're going to get a hundred different answers. I think, and that, to me, that's, what's exciting is that, you know, the definition of what a brand is, is something that is evolving and it's shifting, and it's, it's, you know, like what we were talking about in terms of, you know, what it meant for content and to be able to have more choice going from just a handful of channels to infinite choice right now, you know, the same thing is happening, like with the brands where, you know, there's the three R's, there's like the, the reviews, the ratings and the rankings, you know, that is actually helping kind of create a whole new level of what it means to be able to kind of establish trust with the brands. And that's something that we're working with because it's no longer about, you know, just looking at the branding campaign that you've done and the identity that you've done with it.
Now there are these kind of like real two-way relationships that are happening with brands. And so that's something that is taking a lot more attention, a lot more effort, a lot more care from anybody who has to steward a brand. And the idea that, you know, like like a pro a brand is something that's kind of one and done, and you just kind of leave. It is also gone, you know, cause you've got the brands evolving, you know, with, you know, the consumer behavior, you know, if as everybody knows, you know, like the the, the, the reviews on Amazon and just reviews and social media, like they're very vocal and they're not shocked if there's, if there's a problem with your product, it's really important to make sure that your audience knows that you're listening. And one thing that I think is amazing is that because of the system that we have, you know, because we're involved with like the entire supply chain and we can get involved with, you know, not just like the creation of the brand, but the entire manufacturing process, the fact that we can actually start to kind of pivot something to address any issues that we hear about.
Like, that's, that's impressive to me. Yeah.
Salsify just did some consumer research at the beginning of the year. And the results said that 86% of consumers are willing to pay more for a brand they trust. And the first the first characteristic that came up under, you know, what does trust mean it had to do with product quality and materials, which I thought was super interesting. It's really people thinking about what am I actually bringing into my home and, and, and what am I willing to pay a premium for? And it sounds like that's a lot of what you're talking about is, is kind of paying attention to that at scale.
Absolutely. You know, and everybody knows this, but if we get, you know, a brand that people will actually care about, you know, you get like the benefits of like your consumers advocating for it, it actually makes your marketing easier. You're getting more people engaging with your advertising. There's the price point, which, you know, people are willing to kind of pay more for. And then just the fact that they're more loyal, not just to, you know, the product, but, you know, hopefully there's going to be a halo effect of like the master brand itself. So yeah, there's, there's getting to be more and more data about why paying attention to your branding and making sure that it's it's quality. The never, so you said
Something about the master brand. Do you feel like people will that buy a brand from thrive? IZO we'll know that that brand is in the three Zio family, is that your sort of future vision of it? Am I hearing that right? You know,
That's something that we are going to be experimenting with and testing, you know, cause I, you know, I think we're, we're in a really fortunate position to figure out when to do that and find it actually starts to kind of gather the data and develop the insights about when that's actually going to be helpful. And when it's not, you know, it's yeah. Sorry, keep going. Well, it's, it's just really interesting because like there are, we've got a portfolio of brands that that's growing and there are going to be some brands that could use, you know, some sort of help so that they know that this is actually coming from a great place. And then there are going to be other brands that are doing just fine. And, you know, we just need to kind of be very careful about, you know, what that means.
You look at a lot of like the great other, you know, consumer packaged goods, you know, like holding companies out there, you know, like Unilever, you know, like what they've done, they've got like, you know, dove where people understand that they're coming from Unilever. But then you have other brands like Ben and Jerry's, you know, where, you know, I think Ben and Jerry's has like a really like strong community following. Is that kind of benefit from knowing that they're coming from another big consumer products company? Probably not. So I think it's, it's, it's a case by case thing. There's no one perfect dancer, but I do think it's important to, you know, to be open-minded about it and experiment with it. And what's interesting is like, we've got a culture that embraces trying stuff out and if it doesn't work, you know, we learn from that and we use that to kind of make better decisions.
So I'd love to hear, you know, I, I heard you drop the word data, always great to hear that these things can be data-driven in addition to kind of creative God. And so tell me a bit about the organization that you're building to be able to, to track think about execute, measure op you know, optimize and refine. What, how, how is that working? What does that, do you have mentioned brands Central's in your, in your title, I'm assuming it has something to do with that?
Yeah. well, you know, the real organization is, is thoracic and [inaudible] has a number of different disciplines. And, you know, I don't, I don't look at it as just like one group working in isolation. You know, like the, the, the group that I'm in is, is called brand central. And, you know, like I, our mission is you step back and look at like the mission of Fasio our overall mission is to be the most impactful consumer products company of the next century. The mission of brand central is to build the most impactful branding for the most impactful consumer products company in the next century. So, you know, that's something that we do as a team, not just like the team brand central, but we're actually, you know, this kind of like hub that's working in partnership and in collaboration with different groups which is something that's really exciting.
We get to kind of work with like various kind of deep skill sets to kind of bring stuff to life, whether it's, you know, like the brand operations group or we're working with like the product launch teams or the innovation groups, you know, it's, it's a lot of fun, you know, and basically what we're bringing as brand central is like this kind of deep, you know, expertise around brand strategy, marketing and overall kind of creative lab. And we are building like this insights lab. That's going to be able to conduct all the market research and audience segmentation, any sort of category insights that we're looking for. You know, cause I think as thrash CEO, because we have like the ability to kind of look across the entire supply chain and not just kind of develop like these products and brands there, but also kind of learn from them, gather the data, gather the any of, sort of the analytics that we need to develop these insights to not just kind of evolve the brand and the products but to use that, to be able to kind of, you know, fuel like the greater whole that's, that's the vision.
I could, if I try to compare that to a global FMCG in the way that they think about branding. So the way that you just described the brand central team seems like a really interesting combination of bottoms up marketing execution, as well as the top down brand execution, you know, including experiments like you, like you said, a few minutes ago about using the [inaudible] brand more actively and as an experiment. Right. And so, so given your deep experience with large global brands, what is the operational difference between what you're doing at frankcurzio and what you've seen other other large brands do and is my characterization any, anywhere, even remotely close to the mark there?
No, I, I think it, it, it is you know, and it's interesting, one of the, one of the things that has, you know, attracted me to the opportunity here is that no, it wasn't about like number one, it was something entirely new. But it was new in that, like you're able to kind of gather all these kind of like incredible kind of skills that you've gathered across like a pretty diverse career. So I started out in branding, you know, went into, you know, like.com then went into like, you know, digital marketing then into like integrated more traditional marketing then into the tech platforms and then into startups, you know, the fact that we can actually take like these disciplines of like, you know, high-integrity marketing, high-integrity like branding this kind of, you know, nimble, agile, you know, mindset that you get from like the big tech platforms like Google or Facebook.
And then also the mindset of like these startups, they entrepreneurial startups where you're actually kind of building something from scratch without like a playbook, like we get to kind of bring all of those skillsets into one place. And so, you know, we're trying to kind of figure out how do we make sure that we take the things that work from some of the legacy, you know, experiences apply those to now, but make sure that it's actually a more progressive model. And the more progressive model is one that doesn't make assumptions about, you know, what works and what doesn't. There is no like real best way in bright way to get something done. I think the fact that you can actually work quickly, maybe not get it perfect, but actually get it done in record time so that you can actually start learning from it and then building from, you know, the insights that you're gathering there and then just keep moving. Like one of the keys is the momentum. You look at like some of like the old or older kind of legacy models. And by the way, like, I, I need to kind of figure out a more respectful term because I feel like I didn't, I don't want to make it sound like legacy is like old. It's just like, there were ways that things were done before
That worked really well. That worked really well in that time. Right?
Yeah. It, it worked really well at that time and there are reasons that it worked really well. And I think it's important to kind of look at the stuff that worked well. And is it a product of that time or is it actually a product of like the context of the model and the objectives that are trying to be done? And so we're trying to kind of figure out what is actually in a work with the objectives that we have right now. And, you know, part of those objectives are around, you know, yes, we're building brands but we're building brands at a scale and a speed that didn't exist before. And that scale, it's not just about growing. It's also about some of the change and we're trying to kind of figure out, you know, what does it mean to be able to kind of have this, you know, constantly evolving and shifting kind of relationships between the brands, the consumers and us,
How do you, how do you stop that from being just simply exhausting for your people? And instead enervating like, what is the, how do you make that for able to be done at the scale that you're talking about?
That's a good question. I mean, right now, the way that we do it is that we keep it fun. You know, like this is we're at the beginning of, you know, this chapter everybody's you know, like braced and ready for this, everybody's looking forward to it. Everybody's just having a great time doing this stuff. You might want to ask me that question in a few years, but right now there's this like, feeling like we're just getting started. And when I say we it's, it's, it's not even us within our group or within our company, it's like the entire category. There's this kind of feeling like something new is going on. Let's figure it out.
Well, I loved you. You talked about your, the keyword that just jumped out at me and I'm sure it's on purpose in your mission is impact. And so you probably spend a lot of time thinking about where are the, where are the various constituencies or situations where you want to have impact we know of two already, well, it's probably three. You want to have impact on sellers on consumers. And then I would imagine also on your employees, is there, is there, are there any I'm missing that have that, that are unique to, to three ICO when you think of impact?
Yeah. I mean, you talked about the main ones, you know, the, the consumers are a big one and, you know, that's, that's something that is going to be interesting because right now most of them just have no idea that we exist. So, you know, what happens when the relationship between them and us starts to become more clear in what do we stand for? And that's really exciting for us to figure out the sellers are critical, you know, like we're in this kind of mindset that we're always auditioning for them. You know, like there, isn't the sense of, you know, any expectation that they have to come to us, you know, like we want to make sure that they know that we're trying to earn our place in this relationship. And, you know, trust is something that's not easy, you know, with a big company. And as we grow, it gets harder and harder to kind of make them understand, like we're still the same company that other people were really excited to work with. And trust before
Humility must be, must be really important to maintain because it's, you can get carried away with the greatness of what you're creating and sort of the brashness really of the vision that you have, but your relationships, I would imagine to do what you're talking about, need to come from a place of humility.
Oh, absolutely. And also we need to have like a reality check all the time. I, it's amazing what we're going through and everybody's really proud of it. The numbers are incredible and they speak for themselves. But like, I think it's really important to kind of realize like, you know, like we can never get too comfortable and, you know, things can change at any time. So I, I do like the idea that, you know, we're, we're always in this mode of always trying to kind of constantly earn trust. But you asked about like new audiences and stuff and, you know, as we become more and more public facing, you know, like we're gonna have to earn trust, you know, from like investors as well. You know, we've already got some of that. And that's another situation where we want to just constantly be proving to them. Why, you know, they should work with us. So employees, sellers, consumers, investors just the public overall. Like that's, that's something that we're constantly thinking about.
I want to get back a little bit to the, the branding aspect of, of this cause you've gotten now, we've gone over the [inaudible] company brand. We've gone over the product branding. Now, now we're talking about the employee branding to an extent there's, there's a meeting that you told us about in the podcast prep that blew my mind where you said, this is, this might've been your first week or first month on the, on the job at [inaudible] you said you're in a room and the meeting is about entering new product category. And then three minutes in the question was asked, well, how much time do we have to work on entering this new product category? And I think it might've been, Carlos said you have 27 minutes basically until the end of the meeting. So that 37, 27 minutes you're entering new product categories. And there's something about the pace of that to Peter's point, which is both exciting and terrifying.
There's a, there's a, there's a brand angle, which is, I mean, I can't imagine how many panels a large FMCG company would have to have before deciding to enter into a new product category. And, and, and, and then there's, there's the shopper and thrives you branding angle of it, which is that, you know, you're building it ridiculous house of brands. That's going to participate in a large range of these categories all at the same time. And so I just love that story. And it just seems to me that the challenge that it presents is how do you, how do you keep that spirit alive and how do you actually use that in the in the world and not just an operations to, to drive what it is that you do and how it's different and, and, and all of that. I just, I just love that story. I don't know if there's there's anything that you'd like to add to it.
Yeah. Well, I, you know, I want to be careful with that story because you know, I don't want, I don't want people to number one, be scared. Yeah. And frightened off by some of the process we have. And to me, it's, it actually didn't really have to do with the time it actually had to do with the integrity of the process. And it, to me that show that the integrity of the processes is working. So, you know, the way that I approach all, all this is that we're trying to kind of like figure out, you know, what does it mean to be able to kind of build, you know, a brand? What does it mean to build like branding as a service and what does it mean to be able to kind of do all this, you know, at-scale to be able to do all of this at this kind of speed, this kind of language volume, we do need to be able to set up all these various, like the processes.
We've got like various kind of, you know, call like these kinds of sprints or work sessions. And there's like a general brand one, but we also have like specific ones around like strategy more specific towards naming, more specific towards like design and visual identity design. And it's a process and the time can be flexible. And that example is an extreme one. But to me it was a great demonstration that we can actually contract that process quite a bit. So just to kind of get into the situation that you were talking about, our ideal processes, one that we can do in like one or two, two weeks. But like I said, it's okay, it's a process that can flex. And so it can be longer if we have the luxury of time and you can also be shorter. And the example that I was talking to you about was one where, you know, various factors were coming in.
I gather there was a bit of a perfect storm and we need to kind of gather people immediately to kind of talk about a new opportunity. And so we found out about the opportunity gathered a team, you know, within, you know, 15 minutes had a half hour work session yeah. Briefed and the briefing was actually pretty quick. The briefing just happened in three minutes. And then after that, you know, I asked about like how much time do we have to be able to kind of come up with this brand, you know, this overall naming and positioning. I just kind of looked at the watch and we're like, all right, we still got 27 minutes left. Let's have, you know, our identity figured out by then. And we did. And I'm, I'm proud about the integrity of the process there, but I don't want everybody to think that we're constantly just turning all this stuff out right. In half an hour or less, you know, it's, again, to me, it's about the scalability and the, of the process itself, which can work. And
I think that's what fascinates me about this, particularly given your background, you know, you're coming from the BBD and the mechanic, you know, we, the w again, just like when you were talking about legacy brands, great agencies with it that do amazing work, but this, it feels like therein lies the shift that you're trying to achieve. This thing where creativity can still flow where you know, brilliance can be applied to a brand, but within guardrails that allow it to be done in a much more agile fashion. And it does that when you think about the differences between the process that you've been accustomed to, to what you're seeing now does, is that sort of the essence of it or the more of the guardrails or the, or maybe the objectives are different, you know, tell me what, what, how you sort of think about that.
Yeah, yeah, no, I mean, to me, it's, it's, it's really, it's really exciting. And, you know, looking at the opportunity to kind of start kind of taking the craftsmanship and the execution and the disciplines that you've learned in each of those different kinds of past lives and applying them to now, like, it's interesting people, like when you start talking about what happens when, you know, technology starts to enable all this stuff to happen, you know, like faster and at volume and at scale, people tend to kind of think that that's a compromise, if you don't have months or weeks to work on this creative campaign, you know, brand or, you know, like system, then there's some sort of compromise to that. And I, I challenged that, you know, like I think if you've got like the right mindset and the right process for it, you can kind of figure out how to be able to kind of do all this, you know, in a way that can flex and kind of work within any timeframe for, you know, like any sort of budget.
And so that's, that's one of the things that I'm really excited about is that how do we actually do all this so that we can, you know, figure out how to be able to handle as many of these opportunities as possible. And one of the goals that I have in my career is to be prolific, you know, like the more chances to go up to bat, the more chances to be able to kind of create stuff. You know, you're basically increasing your odds for like more and more kind of like successes and more and more great opportunities. And so, you know, we talk about branding that scale. It's also creative at scale production at scale. It's a lot of fun
As a career goal being prolific, I think is just an outstanding, outstanding one.
I mean, that's, that's, that's one that I've I've learned, you know, is, is, is one of the keys to being able to, you know, like just create as many, like fun, exciting opportunities as possible. You know, there was a point in my career where I was trying to kind of control how many opportunities I had. It was like, you know, one at a time, you know, with enough time to be able to kind of blow it out, you know, to my satisfaction. And what I learned is that, you know, actually kind of working faster, you know, trying to iterate with more stuff actually was more satisfying. But I, I do think the, the, the, the prolificness on its own is, is a really interesting objective. So our, tomorrow
This is the stat that I saw and it may have even changed since I typed it in here a year ago. Razia was 60 people when I got this stat, it was 800 full-time. Is that, is that pretty close?
I don't know the actual numbers, but it's, it's over that. I think we're over at a thousand right now. So yeah, a year ago we had about 60 employees, I think it was 58 that had heard. And yeah, it's how do
You hire for that and how do you onboard for that? You know, how do you create culture for that? What, what, what are you seeing do they have a process for that too? Or is it because that's a lot of humanity which is so exciting, but it's a lot. Yeah.
Yeah. Well, number one, Peter, I'm not the one hiring all those people for your team. I'm thinking particularly for my team. Yes. We we are growing, we've been adding somebody new. It feels like we're adding somebody new every week. And you know, like what I've seen is like, we've got a pretty rigorous process, you know, for hiring, you know, and it, it really comes down to finding people you trust you know, putting these job descriptions out there you know, interviewing as many quality candidates as you can get in. But then also making sure that as they're going through the interviewing process, you know, we, we put them through the ringer and not in a painful way, but like, we make sure that they're talking to as many people as possible. This isn't like these firing decisions they're not made by just like any one single person. You know, we make sure that we're working together as a team, and you're getting like various kind of perspectives and like, you know, disciplines talking to each of the candidates as possible to make sure that this person is who's gonna fit
Well, Tara, we can't thank you enough for making us your podcast visit and for you to share all of these sort of insights and, and processes with us. I think both Rob and I just are, are super excited, not only just to see where [inaudible] goes, but there's a whole obviously industry of competitors that are building up around with you. And then of course, the existing market. And I'm so excited to just see how this where all of this goes into and to watch through, IZO continue to thrive and, and we just are grateful to hear about it from you. Thank you so much for joining us.
Well, really appreciate the talk. It was great talking to you guys,
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