Building the Perfect Store Online at Scale and Speed, with Swagat Choudhury, Global Director of Perfect Store Online at Mars

Transcript

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Peter Crosby (00:00):

Welcome to unpacking the Digital Shelf where we explore brand manufacturing in the digital age. Hey everyone. Peter Crosby here from the Digital Shelf Institute. Our guest today, Swagat Choudhury, global director of Perfect Store online at Mars has been steeped in the evolution of digital commerce for almost 20 years. 17 of that at Diageo. Today's conversation about where digital commerce is going and global plus local transformation has at its core a really crucial reminder that the fundamentals of commerce have remained the same, using a loop of influence and conversion to drive results according to Swagga. The exciting difference of this next AI fueled era will be the ability to unleash so much more data to drive the next best action, both for the consumer and for the marketer. Welcome to the podcast Swagat, and thank you so much for joining us. We are just honored to have you on.

Swagat Choudhury (01:08):

Thank you, Peter. Thanks Lauren.

Peter Crosby (01:10):

You have over 17 years of experience in the digital space. God bless you. That's when we were just figuring out how to spell it to now, and so you've seen all of the evolutions that we've gone through throughout all the last almost two decades and you really know what it takes to build a digital organization and there are a lot of similarities to commerce from a few years ago, but also a lot of changes. So we want to dive into a few key topics and talk about some of those transitions and progress that we've made. But before we do that, I think let's just level set on what's your role and your past experience in digital. What has your journey been?

Swagat Choudhury (01:53):

Yeah, and first of all, thank you for having me here. Yeah, I spent last two decades to just explore what digital means and on the part many things have come. So yeah, I've worked on digital transformation and setting up digital in multiple streams, in marketing functions, in media, in e-commerce, in content transformation. Spent 17 years as you said with my previous organization, Diageo, which I loved. And then I've been with Mars snacking for last year, a little more than a year where I'm trying to set up digital commerce capabilities. So my current role is of course digital commerce is in a stage where it's sitting in the consumer's forefront and hence one side it influences consumers and other side, it helps convert consumers. And very often that happens in a loop. So that's the reason what drives me every day. And under my capabilities, I'm trying to build two things.

(03:03):

One is that how do we learn with data that what are the key next best actions to be taken? And the next thing is to act on the next best action and hence how would you execute it as well? And hence what are the capability and especially in today's world, as technology unlocks so much for us, how can we go faster in a channel? And we live in a channel which will evolve almost every quarter. The opportunities keeps coming in and hence of course technology would help us. So that's broadly what keeps me happily not awake in the night, sleep well in the night and work through the days.

Peter Crosby (03:42):

Well, before we close then we'll get your good sleep tips. I do not have that ability, but I'd love just to for you to define the idea of Perfect Store. Is that something that was established in the brick and mortar context and now bringing it over to digital and what is the north star of that? That means so much at Mars?

Swagat Choudhury (04:06):

And Peter, I think it's a very interesting question because often we try to say that we are doing something very different, but we are not. I think the trade itself has been principally same for hundreds of years. We've only are an evolution in digital commerce where it's gone digital and hence perfect store still means the same things. You need to show up the best way to consumers. You need to be available to be bought, you need to ensure that you have the best experience, you need to ensure that people talk good things about you. And you can put them in different buckets in digital commerce and give it names like Reach, availability, perfect digital shelf, which Lauren does so much amazing work. And of course the last one, which is a part of Digital Shell, but people talking good things about you is so critical in today's world, which is reviews and rating and hence principally I think Perfect Store has existed in our organization for a long time. We are just ensuring that it is fit for the evolving channels and we are able to leverage the opportunity Digital commerce provides us in this space

Lauren Livak Gilbert (05:25):

And Swagat, I think you sit in a unique spot on a global team, so a global capabilities team helping to enable the rest of the organization. And I would love for you to really talk about how that relationship works and also how you might have seen it change from pastor roles moving from a global team to a regional team and vice versa. And what are the keys to success of actually enabling global capabilities?

Swagat Choudhury (05:54):

Yeah, I think my favorite words, I've done multiple transformation projects in different streams is the first thing to start with is that look at the commonalities before difference. There's a reason three of us in different time zones are sitting and talking because we are more common than different. But what happens often is that people first look at how they're different. So switch the narrative, flip the narrative and see that how much more common you are. Because what that does is that all of a sudden you'll see that globally we are most similar than different in what we need as an outcome. Of course there'll be certain nuances which will be really different. And hence when you do that, all of a sudden you realize that rather than creating planets in separate universe, if you try to create one orbit of commonality and you try to then see that how different functions, different markets, different regions, what are the commonality, all of a sudden you realize that the task to be done is much lesser and hence you can do a great job out of it.

(07:05):

And then you figure out what is not common and then you can focus on that. And the best part is that even after doing that, you can take some time back for yourself what you're most passionate about in your life. So I think that is the key of global and local ways of working. It's a two-way conversation. It's never one way where we collaborate and partner and look at mutuality and figure out what are the common things that we need to unlock together and we find the solutions together because then what happens is that you also learn from each other and the time has never been better because of course we were in an era of technology where accessibility of technology was very low because either they were very expensive, very complicated. But we today live in an era where technology is very accessible as well. But end of the day, to do a great job out of automation or technology, you need to ensure that you're doing it the right way and you're focusing in lesser levers, right? And I think that's what a global and local, as you call local ways of working does, is that you're building common capability really well and then leveraging it really well as well. And that's what this especially today's world gives you.

Lauren Livak Gilbert (08:27):

I was just going to say I like the commonality piece because it goes to a lot of what we talk about on the podcast around shared goals. You're all one company, you're all trying to do the same thing, you're all trying to achieve the same goal. And if you think about that as your main focus, then you're not fighting against each other or being like, oh, the global team's saying this and I don't want to do this. So I really love that kind of flip it on its head because that is the business owner mindset that I think we all need to shift to no matter if you're in supply chain or finance or legal or sales or touching e-commerce, everybody is trying to achieve the same goal.

Swagat Choudhury (09:05):

Exactly. Because that's when, because I'm very proud that most of our best ideas have come from the markets, from the ground, and then those have been borrowed, got it centralized and then it's been leveraged across other markets and hence you can grow further.

Peter Crosby (09:22):

And I loved the small little gem you had in there as you were talking about all this, which is the commonality, the ability to then refer, refine where it's needed in local market to produce the best experience and the best results. But then also your third thing was, and it gives you time back in your life to go do things that you're passionate about. And I feel like we forget that part of what you are doing is setting up capabilities that allow people to be more efficient, that make more space for creativity or for walks on the beach or whatever it is that somebody wants. And that Swagat it is really I think one, it speaks to your humanity as a leader and as just as a person, but also I think to reminding everyone in the organization that it's also about broader things than that. I just thought that was really special. I wanted to highlight it. So Aswa, when you think about those global capabilities and how do you think organizations need to implement them to be able to execute digital commerce effectively, what then needs to happen once these processes and standards and KPIs and everything are sort of set? What is it that makes the engine run at the speed that it needs to and the feedback loop, to your point, the data to drive that continuous improvement loop?

Swagat Choudhury (10:54):

Yeah, I mean we spoke about it a little before as well, is that the best part of digital commerce is not, we are not doing anything new. It has happened for centuries. We are just doing it better and we are leveraging the power that technology gives us today and looking from there, I think the first thing is keeping it simple. What are the key focus? You can't do hundreds of things focusing on the right levers, which will really deliver your outcome. I think that's definitely the key. And especially in digital commerce, I think one side is analytics. As we spoke about data, we are blessed. If I compare myself to another channel, physical channel, you have to literally run to the shop to see that if the product is on shelf and you put it on shelf and someone a competition, someone comes and turns it or puts their product on the show, it happens.

(11:45):

We all have been there, been on the sales aisle and we all have done our bits there or clean the products. But beauty of digital commerce is luckily for us, we got virtual eyes all the time, which tell us the data tells us that when you go out of stock, when your product is not showing up the best way that it should be. So I think that's definitely the first bit to do is that ensure that you are able to get the right data analytics about your products and hence it gives you enough insights for you to take the right action as we said, the next best action. So that's definitely the critical bit and we are in a world where it's going to evolve so much is that you might, you sleep and when you wake up currently the analytics to act on, but we might move into a world where probably it has been optimized when you wake up in the morning.

(12:42):

So which let's see how the world evolves towards that goal, but that's one side is the data and that tells your next best action. The other side is that what are those levers? How do you execute? And before we look at technology and possibility as a shiny toy, the first thing is what are those core capabilities? As we said, digital commerce needs very simple stuff. You need to show up in a great way, like mobile hero images are underestimated because it's a simple image. Not everyone is excited, but how far can a simple mobile hero image, good titles, good description take you is really powerful and hence knowing the right levers that you need to execute. And then seeing that is technology helping you to do it better and faster and embracing technology in those use cases as well. So it goes round and round. So I just touched upon one part of it where I think there is between data and execution capabilities, I think there are some very simple levers and using the current capabilities with technology, you can go so much further

Lauren Livak Gilbert (13:55):

And you had talked about some of your best ideas came from the regions, right? So how do you stay in touch with them? Do you have monthly meetings? Do they have a channel that they can share ideas with you? How do you remain connected? Well, also making sure that they feel enabled because I was once on a regional team and I had global partners and sometimes I was like, I don't know, I'm doing my thing, you're doing your thing. It was difficult to stay kind of connected. So how do you remain connected through that?

Swagat Choudhury (14:26):

I think that the couple of things, yeah, we all have been in markets and there have been stages where we didn't like the global and that's where when global doesn't ask you the right questions, but ask for answers where they don't know questions, which we all do sometimes we all are culprit of doing that. But I think that the simplest thing is that, and hence we said when we see the and in the simplest form, remember that different markets will call it in a different way or will have a different way to reference to different levers, but when you simplify your key asks or challenges or questions and then ask, try to understand that, hey, what are the good things you're doing in let's say getting grade reviews and just giving an example, then it becomes much easier for them to share. So one is making it a two-way conversation where you're almost saying that what are common challenges?

(15:29):

How are you solving it? How can we learn from you? And end of the day, global doesn't execute anything. We can only pass it on to another market to do a great job out of it or build capabilities which will help everyone to do further and hence our outcome of what we are doing in one market becomes 10 x or a hundred x. So I think that's really powerful to have that conversations. Second is I think doing, in fact I just walked out of our monthly perfect store forum where we literally lay out what are common challenges and we let each of our market share what is the great work they're doing and there's so much energy in the room because all of a sudden they see the opportunity how they can pick it up and run with it. So I think that really helps. One is keeping it simple. Second to staying connected and today's world, we all are team just a teams chat away. The new world water cooler is teams chat and

Lauren Livak Gilbert (16:30):

Whether we like it or not.

Swagat Choudhury (16:31):

Yes, exactly, yeah, sometimes you don't like it, but don't bother people. But when you have that simple question or you're stuck, you can ask or keeping that channel open when someone else is stuck, they can reach out to you and you can help them out.

Lauren Livak Gilbert (16:44):

So Swagat. Let's talk about ai. I know you're passionate about this. I know we personally have had a ton of conversations about this. So when you think about ag agentic ai, it's really introduced the concept of conversational or mission-based search. So instead of going to buy, I always use this example, and it's not October, so it's not Halloween, but instead of going to buy Halloween candy, you're like, I'm trying to get my five-year-old ready for Halloween, what do I need? And it pulls in multiple different products. So how are you thinking about conversational shopping and communication and agentic AI changing commerce today and just how it's going to change how you work in the future

Swagat Choudhury (17:23):

And this space is moving in such a pace?

Lauren Livak Gilbert (17:27):

Yes,

Swagat Choudhury (17:28):

But we have to catch up to it, right? I think it's really exciting if you ask me the same question a week back and if I would've looked, let's say Amazon, Rufus, the question in my mind was, am I changing behavior of people to go to a chatbot and try to ask a question? But the same thing has flipped over the last few days after roofers is bought now in the search bar, what does that mean is that it is in consumer's journey and it's probably the sixth or the seventh search right now. So it's really powerful. So I think end of the day these technologies will move really fast. I think they will embrace the consumer habits and I think the potential here is that it'll start blending seamlessly within search what consumer intent searches and what machine is suggesting to you. Of course, machine is not telling you something that people haven't told, like what Rufus does is looks into thousands and millions of reviews and tells you answer or your own content that you've published as a product.

(18:45):

So I think it is really, really powerful because what will happen is of course it'll start understanding you much more and especially use the word agent. What Agentic frameworks are doing is that it understands, understand each one of us looking at all our behaviors in seconds, and hence three of us when we go on Amazon and search Rufuss will tell us very different thing in coming times. And similarly, all the other AI led recommendation engines which are coming in, and this is only to grow, I forgot what it's called, but Amazon just launched their agent for consumers as well. I was reading last week, which is you literally tell the agent, this is what I'm looking at, and it goes, finds the best product for you, and hence soon it'll become an extension of us because it understands us better. And hence it's able to scrape thousands of sources and give you exactly what you want. This is one side of agentic. The other side of agentic we hinted upon earlier is what it'll become in operations for practitioners like of digital commerce like us, because then what happens is that agent will understand the insight, understand what's the next best action and probably execute it to on the shelf. So I think it's going to be very powerful as we move ahead. And of course it's going to unlock so much for us because we are a channel where it needs so much optimization that we can't do on an ongoing level.

Lauren Livak Gilbert (20:24):

And Peter and I were chatting about this before the podcast started, but to your point around agentic, AI agents are going to do work for us and optimize. I think actually digital leaders are well positioned to lead that change because we are orchestrators. A big part of your job is to orchestrate all of the different pieces and all of the different functions and just might be orchestrating an agent and multiple agents who are optimizing and you're trying to identify what data point should you take, what action do they need to go do that orchestrator role is going to be where the human comes in and then the analysis and the automation and all of that is going to be the AI agent. So I actually think that leaders in digital are really positioned well to be those future orchestrators of the AI agents.

Swagat Choudhury (21:12):

And I think there's a big question. You might have had that question, but I'll answer. Often people say that, Hey, what does that mean for us doing our job? But if you look at mats, and I know Lauren, you've done a lot of work on this, we probably are, most of the companies are between 10 to 20% of contribution, especially in CPG space of the total business, right?

Lauren Livak Gilbert (21:32):

Yes,

Swagat Choudhury (21:33):

We might be let's say 10% of business, but if you work backwards on the Salesforce, the e-commerce, Salesforce is 1% roughly

Lauren Livak Gilbert (21:44):

If even

Swagat Choudhury (21:44):

That, yeah, even that. So it doesn't mean that we literally had to do much more and there is not a world where we would've got the kind of humans to do this. What it does is that with the amazing teams we already have, we can do much more and hence we can keep growing. Currently we have to take decisions on where do you focus versus you're focusing on every emerging channel as much as you're doing on the leading channel. So I think, yeah, it's going to really empower us.

Peter Crosby (22:16):

And going back to what you were talking about earlier, which is commerce has been the same for hundreds of years. People walk into stores and did back when Woolworths started and would go to a salesperson and go, Hey, so I have my five-year-old Halloween party that I'm trying to put together. What should I, this is not new being unlocked here is a scale and a convenience and an immediacy and such a richer, it is the endless aisle. So such a richer possibility for the shopper and for the manufacturers and retailers to put together really, really unique answers to those questions that that's the part that I think is so exciting. But it is once again, in your context, a reminder that there's nothing really new about this. Humans have been asking shopping questions forever. This is just an incredible new opportunity to take advantage of that need, that endemic shopping need in a really, really effective and powerful way. So I think it's super exciting. One thing I also wanted to recommend to our listeners, and I listened to it yesterday, the Harvard Business Review does a podcast called Idea Cast, and they just came out when this is May 8th when we're recording with an interview with Andy Jassy at Amazon, and it's really powerful.

Lauren Livak Gilbert (23:56):

Excellent.

Peter Crosby (23:57):

Yeah, really, really good across a number of things. One, just listening to Lauren was talking about ownership, talking about sort of owners having an owner mentality of your business and getting decision making down as far as the organization, but then he also talked a lot about ai, the potential of ai, what it means for the shopping journey. So anyway, as I think about kind of where this is going, and his point echoed yours in the beginning, which is this is all going to happen faster than probably anything else that we've ever experienced. And so some of the rules about holding off and not being an early-ish adopter of some of this stuff, I don't think that's going to serve companies over the longer run. And I'm wondering how you think about that. At the summit, we heard a mix of what you would expect in these kinds of things. There's sort of the early adopters, there's the middle, and then there's the laggards. But I was wondering how you feel about that, like the importance of leaning in or do you feel like there's more time than we think to take advantage of the advantages early?

Swagat Choudhury (25:10):

I don't think there is more time in. We've not seen anything like this ever in any of the industrial revolution till date. Every quarter things are totally different. So I think though we need to keep learning, stay curious end of the day. We don't have to be distracted. It's easy to get distracted to do things because the word AI is there, but if you can do your current job faster, what you had to do or what you dreamt of doing or what was not even in your dreamscape, and you can do it. And I think that if that is becoming a possibility, I think you should be doing it. So keeping an eye open. I think the good part for us is that a lot of responsibility of this transformation is with our partners as well, which is our retailers because they are bringing that technology change.

(26:11):

We just need to, I think sometimes a curious question in your joint business plan conversations to say that how can I support you better? We all know that nutrition is really important, we all are consumers. But now that Amazon and others have started almost saying that nutrition needs to be one of the upfront thing in most of the digital shelf content, that's when we start acting. So we need to just ensure that we have the right support that we need to provide them. And I think the last one, Peter Wing you mentioned, yeah, things are changing so fast channels will evolve very fast. Keep asking that question same time next year, what will be relevant?

(26:57):

And it wouldn't have changed for decades as much as it'll, now we already have markets where social commerce contributes in double digit if not more, which couple of months back we would've said, oh, this is interesting, but we don't know which way it's going, but it's becoming a reality. And similarly, it'll keep evolving. Lauren spoke about agent tech, that's so important. I was looking at E B2B, a tool of sales code and a demo of theirs, and it was fantastic. We all know how important E B2B is, and no one is interested in it, but when AI agents with voice can start doing everything on e B2B on phone calls, it's a different ballgame. So things will move very, very fast, I feel. So we just have to be curious. We have to see that not distracted, but curious and ensure that how can we get our goals much easier using technology, not the other way around.

Peter Crosby (28:02):

Yeah. When you talk about being careful not to be distracted, I would imagine that part of that comes from really thinking about where the true value will come from in. I'm thinking about the need to prioritize where you're going to test and learn in ai. And so I'm wondering, when you think about that in the domain that you are working on perfect store, how are you prioritizing your experiments without obviously giving any of literally the storeway on anything, but just how you think about that, how you're working, and I would imagine it's a cross-functional conversation with your, your data teams, your legal teams, all of that. I'm just wondering what your thoughts are about not getting distracted but making progress.

Swagat Choudhury (28:54):

And Peter, you had a great point. It's a cross-functional, and I think sometimes you have to respect when, let's say go to IT team and say, where's the brief? As a marketers, we are always impatient and we just go with a two line brief or literally speak it out, but you need to be very clear why you're doing it. What's the outcome you're going to derive, and hence why should we doing similarly, you mentioned about our legal teams, it is an era. We need to be very responsible with ai. We need to ensure because it has big implications. We all have seen what's been happening in the world. We know small example being with gli, but there's so many other things that will happen, so you need to be also responsible in what you're doing. But yeah, I think area of focus, especially for me, I feel that the biggest unlock of AI will be data because that is where most of us don't have capability.

(29:56):

We might have small data science teams, and now those super data science teams have superpower because they can amplify their capability with the power of ai. So I feel AI will play a great role, especially in data one side. The other side, obviously we got a lot of focus on what are those execution capabilities which we could not deliver earlier to the best firm. Because the fact of digital commerce, we say it's simple, but it's complex in a different way because we have to solve for hundreds of retailers with multiple times algorithm changes or even understanding that algorithm is so critical. And hence understanding that how do we create different version of the same piece of content, written content using AI becomes so important. And that's the biggest unlock as well. And third, I think it's just, I think ai, while we see it as a risk for governance or compliance, I think it's the other way around, would've not known if something is going wrong in some part of the world in some third party publishing. But now I think probably AI will help us to identify so that responsibly all of us can act on it and correct it.

Peter Crosby (31:18):

I love that flip that it's actually making it more powerful, more able to identify and reduce risk faster. So Swagat, earlier you mentioned voice in the context of B2B stuff, so I'd like to dig into that more. We've talked about voice and conversational commerce for so long, but I feel like this could be a real energizer of that. And I was wondering, especially with the release of Alexa plus, how are you feeling about the opportunity for voice in commerce in this next era?

Swagat Choudhury (31:57):

Yeah, I think voice is really interesting. I would say it's safe to assume that most of us have at least one or two Alexa device in a house in two rooms, and every time there's a prime day, we are likely to add another one little one somewhere in the office or somewhere else. So that keeps happening all the time. So what's happening is that obviously the enablement of voice is there. Now we can't question, I haven't seen numbers on share of voice as of now, which gets published, but the power of voice is that think of a lot of what the frictions in e-commerce or which are the kind of e-commerce which can move to conversation. And it's our behavior changes. First time Gemini came, I'm on Android. I was like, who's going to use Gemini now? I'm going to, every time I say, okay, Google, including now just wakes up and I start asking questions.

(33:01):

And this is just us. If I ask my daughter, that's the organic way for them to search things now through voice. And hence what is going to happen is that voice is becoming a behavior and organic behavior of ours. And hence let's think there are a lot of things, let's say products which are repeat to start with, which is already happening. I order my kind energy bars all through voice because Alex exactly knows what I need. I just have to ask, repeat my order, but it's going to go from there because voice is becoming so much more conversational. Alexa initially started where it was about, it was one way, it was a little bit of conversation just for having fun, but now you're having full fledged conversation with voice applications. And hence what will happen is that e-commerce will evolve further because all of a sudden you're asking Alex, okay, which is the best energy bar for me, which is lowest in calorie and it's telling you, or is lowest calorie good for me or not?

(34:03):

Those kind of questions, and it recommends you what you want and powered by Lauren, what you mentioned about agent tech. It'll start giving you more specific answers as well. So hence, I feel that a lot of transactions will start moving into Alex and like Alex plus coming in, that just empowers it further because that means Alex understands us much better. So definitely voice is in a great place, especially in devices and even beyond there is, I don't know what's the number, but there's a significant amount of people who click on the search bar now, click on the voice button and search with voice. So even in our organic way of product search voice is going to become much more important. So I think it's going to become a very important part of how we search for products and actually discover products and buy products.

Peter Crosby (35:01):

I think the exciting opportunity in this next moment, I think when I think of our listeners and certainly Mars as a huge example of this, they have invested their careers and also their companies have invested in creating accurate, complete product content that represents the product and accurately, and then the addition of ratings and reviews, all of this stuff. I think it puts our listeners in a really good position for this future where you won't be able to hide anymore as a brand. You won't be able to hide behind marketing fluff or being imprecise in the truths of your product or what people say about online because it will be out there. And so the best, our job is to, I think, lean into that opportunity to be trustworthy, to be the trusted sources and to lean into that. I'm wondering if that makes sense to you, this moment where kind of faking it in terms of your content isn't going to benefit and the obverse is true.

Lauren Livak Gilbert (36:34):

You can't trick the AI agent.

Swagat Choudhury (36:36):

Yeah, yeah. I would say you could never trick the humans as well. And especially we are, especially in digital commerce, we are in a space where people are there for a decision to purchase, right? It is not just consumption of content, and hence, you have to ensure that you have the right information. And I think as marketers, our first passion and responsibility for most of the repeated companies like us and others is to show up and represent in the best way and have the right information provided so that people can take the best decision. Of course, as Laurel you said, you can't trick the AI agent because AI will find it, whatever information you have, which people maybe they would haven't lost. So it's the other way around. You might've done some great content about your nutrition, about the occasions, but consumer would've never read. But all of a sudden AI will say, this is vegan, or this is low in calories. Those are the facts which AI will pick up of your great content as well. The last bit is that I think not a lot has changed for us, and Lauren, we spoke about it sometime back as well, is that end of the day you have to do your brilliant basics. Well, because everything we spoke about

Peter Crosby (38:00):

As

Swagat Choudhury (38:01):

A marketer, you are not writing an agent for Amazon. What you're doing is you're providing great, brilliant, basic content which ensures that you show up the right way. You have to just adopt from a search engine optimization, SEO world to, as they call geo generative engine optimization world, and understand that, what else do I have to write? And hence, you're prepared for it. And that's one area where AI will also help you out to prepare, write much better and faster to provide the best experience for consumers.

Peter Crosby (38:37):

Well, Swagat, thank you so much for this conversation. It's been a blast and really informative, and we're super grateful that you came on to share your almost two decades of experience that then are feeding your next two decades of work. So thank you so much for joining us and giving us a glimpse into it.

Swagat Choudhury (39:05):

Thank you. It's been a pleasure. Thank you, Peter. Thanks Lauren.

Lauren Livak Gilbert (39:08):

Thanks Waa. And one quick call out before we end Digital shelf summit you up. I will see Swagat in person there, but if anybody is interested in joining, it's October 16th, so save the date

Peter Crosby (39:20):

And I'll what the city Is it

Lauren Livak Gilbert (39:21):

In London? In London? Did I? Not that It's in London. You did not. It's in London. Oh,

Peter Crosby (39:24):

Sorry. It's in London. You say Europe. It's where I tell you're going to everywhere. Ask chat, GPT. It'll find it for you. Yes, London,

Lauren Livak Gilbert (39:34):

October 16th. Hope to see you there.

Peter Crosby (39:37):

Thanks

Lauren Livak Gilbert (39:38):

Everyone.

Peter Crosby (39:39):

Thanks again to Swagat for sharing his wisdom. As Lauren said, DSS Europe is coming up in October. Go to digitalshelfinstitute.org for more information and become a member while you're there. Thanks for being part of our community.