Stay up to date on the digital shelf.



    We'll keep you up to date!


    Loyalty is Now Everyone’s Job, with Andrea Leigh, Founder & CEO, Allume Group

    Every quarter, the ecommerce education consultancy Allume Group consolidates the output of expert conversations, annual reports, and the latest data to create their Allume Insider report, or AIR. It’s chock a block full of the most current insights into the present and future of ecommerce. Andrea Leigh, Founder & CEO of Allume Group rejoins the podcast with the takeaways from Q1 based on their research.


    Our transcripts are generated by AI. Please excuse any typos and if you have any specific questions please email info@digitalshelfinstitute.org.

    Peter Crosby (00:00):

    Welcome to Unpacking the Digital Shelf where we explore brand manufacturing in the digital age.


    Hey everyone. Peter Crosby here from the Digital Shelf Institute. Every quarter, the e-Commerce Education Consultancy Allume Group consolidates the output of expert conversations, annual reports, and the latest data to create their Allume Insider report or air. It's Chock Block full of the most current insights into the present and future of e-commerce. Andrea Leigh, founder and CEO of Allume Group, rejoins the podcast with the takeaways from Q1 based on their research. Welcome back, Andrea. It's that time of the quarter again where we dive into consumer and e-commerce trends with the Allume Group. We're so delighted to have you back.

    Andrea Leigh (00:55):

    I'm very excited to be here and thanks for having me.

    Peter Crosby (00:57):

    No, of course. So just to remind everyone, it's your Air Report Allume Insider report, and so let's dig in. What was the major theme this edition?

    Andrea Leigh (01:08):

    Yeah, so we come up with our theme each quarter by listening to the manufacturer community, attending conferences, following all the reports that come out throughout the course of the quarter to kind of predict what's coming for the next quarter. And the theme that came out really loud and clear for us for Q2 was brand loyalty. And the idea is that a lot of the digital commerce teams that we work with are being asked to do more with less. So some of the digital commerce growth is slowing a bit as business settles, as we see continued kind of return to store and balancing there, we're still seeing a lot of growth in the channel, but I think a lot of digital commerce leaders based on pressure throughout the entire organization due to slowing demand in general, they're being asked to reduce some of their staffing to consolidate agencies that they're working with and to really make sure that they're optimized from a expenditures perspective, including retail, media, advertising, et cetera.


    And so in doing that, I think now the idea of shopper loyalty is kind of becoming a part of everyone's jobs where maybe that sole responsibility, as Lauren and I were talking about previously, used to sit with different teams. And loyalty by the way can mean a lot of different things. In this context, we're talking about repeat purchase, so shopper loyalty, and it can mean things like coupons and subscriptions and shopper marketing, membership, community, et cetera, which traditionally has lived on an island within an organization. And it's really to become part of that digital leader's job to think about. And the reason being is it's cheaper, right? It's cheaper to sell more to existing customers, as we all know, than it is to go acquire new customers. And I think digital leaders have been really singularly focused on transaction and conversion online, and the online platforms are optimized for that. Of course, we know what that looks like, particularly on Amazon. But I think taking a step back to really think about that shopper and how do we develop a relationship with them and how do we drive brand loyalty? So that's been top of mind with a lot of our clients.

    Peter Crosby (03:44):

    And I would think part of the reason why it's becoming everyone's job is that just like we've learned with acquisition, it's wherever a loyalty will be built, wherever the consumer shows up and is interested in being open to repeat purchases and open to loyalty and the opportunities for that. And also for introducing even beyond the transactional kind of loyalty, introducing a brand loyalty through storytelling that is now spread across more and more channels. And particularly I think that's where the e-commerce channels have started to take on more power. Does that resonate with you? Does that make sense?

    Andrea Leigh (04:21):

    Yeah, absolutely, Peter, they don't need to be just transactional platforms anymore. The capabilities are changing. The way the shopper is engaging with the digital marketplaces is changing. I mean, for example, back in my Amazon days, a long time ago, we used to look at a metric called Time on Site, and that was how long the shopper spent browsing before they made a purchase. And generally speaking, back then we thought more time on site was a bad thing because it meant they couldn't find what they wanted. We wanted 'em to be able to get in and out and be very transactional about the experience. Well, I don't think that's the case anymore for most e-commerce marketplaces. We want to engage the shopper. We want to be able to give them content to interact with. Certainly Amazon's not looking at it that way anymore as they've been working on more ways to do live streaming and posts and they have influencer content on the site and lots of customer reviews to read, and they're doing a really good job trying to make that more efficient experience for you by summarizing some of that user generated content through ai, et cetera.


    But I think that the digital platforms have really come a long way in being able to engage the shopper, and that's really exciting and it presents a really cool opportunity for consumer brands to engage in that experience and to engage that shopper and to create a relationship with them

    Lauren Livak Gilbert (05:46):

    And to bring back a buzzword from a previous report, infotainment is what the shopper is looking for just to tie many of your themes back to what we're talking about. So check out that episode.

    Andrea Leigh (05:58):

    Yeah, exactly. And I think that just to kind of set a little more context, the customer acquisition costs are at an all time high. I mean, they raise rise every year. I read a report that said they've come up 222% since 2013. I don't know if that's true, but it used to be $9 to acquire a customer. Now it's closer to 30. Impulse buying is waning. So 48% of consumers say they're doing more research before they buy a product this year compared with 32% last year. And then really high brand switching. So 34% of global shoppers report brand switching in the last year and it's highest with Gen Z at 47%. And then this stat was what really did it for me.


    77% of shoppers say they'll buy from competition if it's cheaper or more convenient. So really we've got a really, I don't want to call it a fickle consumer. I don't think they're fickle. I do think that in difficult times when grocery and groceries and housing and gas and all of our basic necessities cost a lot more, folks are just being more choiceful about their purchasing and maybe being, I guess I would characterize it as being a little bit more, trying to be more responsible in the choices that they're making. But loyalty is huge and can drive an enormous amount. It's a huge opportunity, can drive an enormous amount of growth for a brand. 70% of emotionally engaged consumers spend two times or more on brands they're loyal to. And there's a lot of data that shows that we'll spend more to buy the products from brands that we feel really connected to. So I think that the question is how do you drive that connection and what does that look like for a brand? How do you make the magic happen?

    Lauren Livak Gilbert (07:50):

    Well, Andrea, I mean you asked and are answering the question. So from a brand side, what does that look like? I know you've identified a couple of different areas where brands should focus on for loyalty, so let's dig into that.

    Andrea Leigh (08:02):

    Yeah, yeah. So we kind of boil it down into three key areas. The first is make it easy for me. The second is connect with me, and the third is reward me. And I think one thing that's really interesting is even if you feel like you've lost a loyal shopper or some of your loyal shoppers, 69% are willing to be won back. And when you ask shoppers what would bring them back to their favorite brand, it's more attractive discounts, improved product service quality, more products, better customer service. It's kind of all the things you would expect. So it isn't hard to get them back groundbreaking. I was going to say, well, I think that this whole report, our whole report is not terribly groundbreaking, but is a good reminder. And it might be new information for a lot of folks who don't work on shopper loyalty on a day-to-day basis. But I think that is the big takeaway for the report is that this is not rocket science and you don't have to have a really fancy loyalty program. It's a lot of basics.

    Peter Crosby (09:07):

    Well, and to your point, if you're looking around for growth at a lower cost, which is what profitability is made of, your existing customers have always been a source for that. But as you said, I feel like the pressure to do that, the places that you can look for that kind of equation are fewer and fewer. And so you need to get great at the one that is standing right there in front of you at a mesh.

    Andrea Leigh (09:33):

    Absolutely. We need to focus on, we have an opportunity to focus on what's right in front of us for more profitable growth. So kicking off at the top with Make It Easy For me, this is about brilliant basics and I'm citing a few different reports here with some of this data. And we'll include that in our, we include a resources section in our report that folks, if they want to go read some more of these reports in more detail, 92% of shoppers say their favorite brand provides consistent experience regardless of where they interact with it. That is the top thing that people cite. Omni Omni channel. Exactly. Meet the shopper where they're at. So that came up really high. And like I said, it's not about fancy loyalty programs. Shopper cite really foundational commerce elements when they talk about their favorite brand or their favorite experiences.


    And it comes down to assortment availability and quality. Those are the top three factors that they cite by far. It not has a complicated point system where I can earn rewards. It isn't even discounts, assortment, availability and quality. And it's funny because there was a point a few years ago where all the retailers were racing to do ultra fast delivery. That's when everyone got on Instacart and a lot of retailers were trying to compete with Amazon's two hour delivery or one day or same day, whatever things they were doing at the moment. And even back then, the data was totally consistent. CoreSite had a report that came out around the same time that said delivery speed was super low in the list of things that shoppers cared about. It was assortment availability and quality. And these are really the critical loyalty drivers. And they sound simple, but they're really hard to get right.


    I mean, it's just like the foundational building blocks of digital commerce. The product has to be in stock, receiving traffic and activity has to be financially viable. We have to have the right assortment. And I think even though it sounds easy, shoppers Report, 88% of US shoppers report that online retailers failed to meet their expectations in these areas at least one to three times in the last year alone. So the shoppers are telling us these are the things that are important to us in order for us to be loyal to retailers and brands, and you're letting us down a lot of the time.

    Peter Crosby (12:03):

    Yeah, I mean, so much of consistency is predictability. Alright, tell me what date I'm going to get it and then I better freaking get it on that date. Otherwise don't lie to me essentially. But like you said underneath that, that's super hard still and availability is still unreliable

    Andrea Leigh (12:24):

    And it's meeting the shopper where they're at. And I think a great example of this is, I don't know how many of you got a chance to see the Diane Von Furstenberg popup collaboration with Target that they did recently Did not. It actually, it just went on sale a couple weeks ago. I went and bought a couple of things, but it was a great example of just really strong execution and meeting the shopper where they're at. They had a great online store popup storefront where you could easily shop the merchandise. It was very clear when the pop-up was going to begin, you could even kind of add things to save for later so that when they went on sale, you could go back and buy them. They were clear about availability. Availability was also pretty strong throughout the first day of the sale and executed really well in store as well. And so I think that consistency across the commerce channels for the shopper and meeting them where they're at, I mean was able to, when it went live, I was able to go online, make my purchase, and I was able to do a curbside pickup within an hour of making that purchase. So just really strong, consistent execution across all the channels in that popup. And I think they did a really nice job.

    Lauren Livak Gilbert (13:36):

    I think it's a friendly reminder that especially when you're in a consumer brand and you're just focused on e-commerce in the digital space specifically, there's so many things that pop up like AI or the Metaverse at one point in the past, all these new shiny things that happen and they're great to know about, to know when they're going to become more prominent and make sure that you have an understanding of them. But going back to the basics of assortment availability, those are core parts of the business. And I think this can be very helpful to also prioritize where to focus your time because this is what the shoppers are looking for. So in an industry where there's so much noise, there's so many things you have to stay on top of, where do you need to double down to make sure that you're seeing growth and profitability, the basics. And this is these great data to support that.

    Andrea Leigh (14:23):

    And it's not a mystery what the shopper wants. I think we get a little nervous sometimes with the shopper changing so quickly and every few years there's a new social media platform that they're engaging with or a new technology or a new means of discovering product. And all of that's important, but I think it really comes down to some of these basic foundational elements and meeting the shopper where they're at. And I think another great example is Barbie. We saw a lot of Barbie this year everywhere, and we got a chance to hear Mattel speak at Shop Talk this year. And the quote that I loved was, start with the story and the commerce will follow. And I loved that. Barbie's another great example from a commerce perspective and just with the launch of the movie perspective that everywhere you went, you saw it. It was sort of a bombardment across all channels. It was like traditional media and digital media and streaming and social media. And I think where you really get an opportunity with that, I mean, we all can't be Barbie, of course. So that's probably not an excellent example for all the brands listening today.

    Peter Crosby (15:47):

    To my eternal regret, I can never do that.

    Andrea Leigh (15:50):

    But loyalty can drive fandom and encourage shoppers to evangelize for your brand. And another great example of that is the Stanley Cup craze this year, right? TikTok is full of people showing their cupboards with rainbows of Stanley cups lining the shelves. And I think that's a great example of you've got this loyal fan base that is out there evangelizing for your brand, and that's free marketing. I mean, if you can get to that level, that's pretty incredible.

    Peter Crosby (16:27):

    And Andrea, you had mentioned it earlier, sort of your second dimension of it is about make it about me. Forgive me, I forgot.

    Andrea Leigh (16:37):

    Yeah, connect

    Peter Crosby (16:38):

    With me. Thank you, thank you. Connect with me. And so much of that has to do with the data that you should have, could have, should want to, to be able to create something that's more personalized for your consumer. What are the things that you're seeing around that opportunity?

    Andrea Leigh (16:59):

    Yeah, so 85% of shoppers say their favorite brand treats them like an individual. And 88% say their favorite brand uses their data in ways that make them comfortable. So those are kind of two, almost like contradictory needs that the shopper's telling us about. So they want to be treated like an individual, which then makes us think personalization, ai, those types of experiences, but they also want to feel comfortable with how their data's being used. So I think this is a little more of a don't do list. So what I mean by that is don't be creepy. Don't be creepy, don't be creepy. And far reaching personalization can be a trust buster if it's done incorrectly or irresponsibly. And over half of global shoppers cite that they have received irrelevant content or offers and dislike ads based on indirect targeting tools. So indirect meaning you didn't give the information willingly and how you're being targeted when you're shopping somewhere else.


    And I mean, there's a whole other storyline here around cookies and where that's going and how retailers and platforms are going to be thinking about that differently. But this is really just about fostering an emotional connection and showing the shopper that you care. This isn't about having the most sophisticated AI to communicate with shoppers or to create the creative or whatever it is. I think this can sound hard, especially for really big brands, but it isn't. It's really just about communication. When consumers feel appreciated, 88% stay with the brand, 83% plan to spend more with the brand, and 87% will advocate for the brand. So kind of going back to the Stanley Cups if you feel this connection. And so I think this is really about making sure that your shoppers receive UpToDate personalized information consistently. It doesn't need to be extraordinarily personalized. This can look like for a retailer or even a brand that has D two C triggered messages for product availability and launches, or you can even execute that through retail media, right? On another retailer's platform, letting your shoppers know when you have new product launches and specifically letting the shoppers know that you think it's going to be most meaningful to personalized offers and promotions based on previous activity because you looked at this or bought this, we thought you might be interested in this. And then just really transparent explanations for how data is being used. And this is, I think, important for brands that have D two C sites in particular.


    And we had a great example here, another shop talk speech that we loved. And by the way, shop Talk had a whole track on shopper on loyalty, building loyalty with your shopper, which I thought was really interesting. It was such an important topic for the conference even. But there was a brand called Mad Rabbit, and it's a tattoo aftercare, which I didn't know that was a thing I wasn't aware. I know. Well, I did learn actually through his speech that we are approaching 50% of the population that has tattoos. So I didn't know that. Actually, I wanted to go look that up later. I was like, that sounds like a lot of people, but I guess you wouldn't know. You don't know.

    Peter Crosby (20:29):

    I hope of the adult population level, hope it's not, it was definitely

    Andrea Leigh (20:34):

    Higher five year olds.

    Peter Crosby (20:38):

    You never know.

    Andrea Leigh (20:40):

    You never know Peter. I hope so too. That would be weird. But it was interesting. He talked about Reddit, and it's not the first time that I've heard sort of an up and coming brand talk about how they have forged a really strong connection and driven loyalty with shoppers through Reddit as a forum. But there's a whole channel in Reddit called Tattoo Advice, and they're just really active on it and communicating with the shopper. And Oliver Zack's the founder and he said, his quote that I grabbed from the conference was, put your followers in the best position to promote your brand. You're never too big to have those conversations. Keep as close of a pulse on your consumers as possible. And I really liked that because I think that makes it accessible even for big brands. You can go on Reddit and see what shoppers are saying about you.


    You can learn about what they like and don't like about your products. But I think this was a great example of they kind of knew where their community was, meeting the shopper, where they're at, finding ways to connect with them. And the top post in tattoo advice is, has anyone used Mad Rabbit? And then tons of, there's almost 200,000 people that are in this subreddit. And just a ton of feedback about the product and just a really loyal fan base there. So really finding ways to connect with the shopper and then keeping it simple, up to date, personalized information about your products, and then just being careful with their data, being responsible with their data.

    Lauren Livak Gilbert (22:21):

    Don't be creepy. I'm sorry. Don't be creepy. That's what I think of. I don't want to be creeped out when I receive an email or a text message or you looked at this one thing or I never gave you that information, or Why are you texting me six times a day? We had an episode about texting and SMS. You just need to, it's a very thin line, and you have to be very careful around being personalized, not being creepy, but giving the consumer what they want. But the consumer will also tell you when you're not getting what you want. So listen,

    Peter Crosby (22:47):

    Absolutely. That's what I appreciate about some of the brands that I have given permission to talk to me like that is that every once in a while I can either say I want less of this. Giving somebody an opportunity to provide feedback in a very simple way, I think is incredibly important, particularly when we all know that personalization can only go so far. Our data only goes so far. And so it's always, at least for now, it's going to continue to be a little bit of brute force. And so offering options for giving your feedback on how you want to be communicated with that doesn't necessarily always have to be, I'm quitting because I'm sick of this. There should be a way to have that conversation, whether it's, Hey, does this message work for you or are you hearing from us as much? There's a bunch of ways that I've seen it happen that I really appreciate. And then also feeling like me being a loyal customer makes me the most important person. I don't mean among other people, but that their current customers are as important if not more important to them than necessarily finding the next one. And I really appreciate that way of communicating, sort of just tending to the relationship, I guess.

    Andrea Leigh (24:13):

    Absolutely. And I love what you just said, Peter, about the binary nature of a lot of the communication preferences that we have now. So it's like you're either in or you're out, like opt in, opt out. And I have seen more retailers and D two C sites engage in gathering a little bit more about my preferences, communication preferences. So now that we can be communicated with over email and text and social and all of these different channels, now we're starting to see opportunities for us to customize even those experiences for ourselves. Send me fewer emails or send me emails but not tests or send me push notifications, but don't send me emails or send me or the reverse. And I like or talk to me about these things, but not these things. And I love that. I don't think those are things that are terribly hard to implement, but they provide a lot of value for the shopper and they give you an opportunity to continue communicating with them.

    Lauren Livak Gilbert (25:16):

    And so let's talk a little bit more about the third piece, the reward Me where loyalty doesn't actually have to be some sort of reward, but what else could it be and what is the value that loyalty that can provide?

    Andrea Leigh (25:30):

    Yes. So 88% of shoppers say their favorite brand rewards them for their loyalty. But what we did learn through the research was that it's not all about loyalty programs and points and discounts. A third of shoppers find value in receiving exclusive access to products or services. So that's not even any discount driven access, just plain old exclusive access. And then a quarter of shoppers find value in personalized product or service suggestions. And I loved this quote from one of the reports that we relied on for the air this quarter. Trent Lanning, who's a senior researcher at Marigold, said, if all you focus on is the transaction, then all you'll get is a transactional relationship in return. And I love that because I do think that a lot of the forms of loyalty building that we've seen so far are very transactional and discount driven, but I think that it's really best if there's an opportunity to offer more than merely financial incentives.


    So really thinking about what are the other ways that we can engage with the shopper and reward them for their loyalty. A couple of great examples that we saw are Lululemon has a really great program. Well, first they did a cool, well, they give you early access to product drops. So that's kind of that exclusive, exclusive video. There's not a discount associated with it, but just early access you can, they offer some Peloton classes and they also in some locations offer free yoga classes in the stores. So just by being a patron, you don't even have to be a member of anything just by being a patron of their stores and being in the know you can get some free workout classes, which I think is cool. They have a lot of different membership events throughout the year. I mean, most programs you can return without a receipt because logged in their system and they do free hemming, which is pretty cool, especially when you consider how much their yoga pants cost.


    But I like that it's kind of a pretty multifaceted program that focuses on more than just discounts. It's about a whole experience and a whole ecosystem. And most of those things that they're offering don't cost them anything to offer, which I think is pretty cool or really low cost, running a couple of yoga classes a week or doing the hemming or just orchestrating a means for shoppers to get early access. So they do a really nice job. I think Nordstrom does a nice job with their loyalty program as well. Again, you get early access to the sales, it's access. They have some parties throughout the year that depending on your level of loyalty, you get to go to different things. I even saw one time that for the highest level of loyalty, which I don't think I'll ever achieve with them, they do. They'll pick you and your friends up in a limo and take you on this whole shopping day, which sounded totally,

    Lauren Livak Gilbert (28:38):

    How much do you have to spend for that

    Andrea Leigh (28:41):

    Way more money than I have Lauren, way more or time for that matter or time. I mean, you'd have to get all your friends to shop on your Nordstrom card and Venmo you OU to hit that level. Andrew,

    Lauren Livak Gilbert (28:55):

    I'm glad we're talking about examples because I was actually this weekend, this is perfect timing. So pros, it's like a customizable haircare solution so you can build your shampoo and conditioner, and I've been loyal to that brand for years. That's what I use as my haircare product. I have super sensitive everything, so I have to be really careful. And they came out with a skincare line, and as a member of pros, I got an email and they're like, Hey, we're starting our skincare line. Do you want to try free skincare for your first go ahead because we're venturing into this space. And they took the preferences that I have for my hair, like no scent, like paraben-free, silicon free, and actually applied it into a customized skincare routine where I get to actually take a quiz, but it recommends based on some of the preferences I already had.


    So to me, that's a perfect example of using my data in a really great way because I gave you all that data about my haircare. You're moving into a new space. It's a skincare cool opportunity for me to try. It's free for me, and then I can be a part of your subscription if I like it. So it was just a really cool approach that I'd never had from any other company because it was customized to me. They used my data in a great way. I got something super valuable. They introduced me into a totally new line that they're expanding, and it was just a really cool way of bringing that loyalty to the forefront. So I was thinking about that as you were talking because it hit on a lot of those elements that we just covered for loyalty.

    Andrea Leigh (30:25):

    That's an excellent example, Lauren. And really, they didn't offer you any discounts or financial incentives at all. They offered you some customization in exchange for your data, and now they have your data, which is really useful for them. They can use that in aggregate to develop products for different profiles and things like that. Exactly. So that's a really excellent example, and I think that's how you get brand advocates, everyone. We did a program for one of the big media companies recently, and they said, all of our clients come to us and they want us to come up with the next viral marketing campaign. And we had a conversation about the talk track around that, which is that it doesn't start with a viral marketing campaign. It starts with an excellent product, with a strong brand following. So you have to actually focus. And then the viral marketing is an output of that for having the right inputs. But

    Peter Crosby (31:21):

    People aren't patient enough for that. They want the magic pill. I want

    Lauren Livak Gilbert (31:25):

    The campaign.

    Andrea Leigh (31:26):

    Yeah, I want the campaign, but you have to really be driving already some organic fandom and then you can put your foot on the gas on it. But I think that those building blocks, those foundational building blocks have to be there first.

    Peter Crosby (31:40):

    Andrea, I was wondering whether through your client conversations or the presentations you saw at Shoptalk or anything, this shift where loyalty is everyone's job. Are you seeing either an investment in broader education around what loyalty means and how it might, I'm just wondering about the organizational process adjustments that may need to happen for that discipline to spread itself across an organization as opposed to just being the responsibility of shopper marketing.

    Andrea Leigh (32:13):

    I think that's a great question, Peter, and the short answer is no. What we're seeing is the e-commerce or digital commerce team not getting much of a budget increase year on year, and they're having to figure it out or an unwillingness to grow the retail media advertising dollar budget significantly for 2024, and then the team has to figure it out. So I think it's a little bit more of an organic effort within some of the digital leadership teams that we've seen to try to figure out how do we drive more with less? And a lot of that's happening through retail media and targeting and using Amazon Marketing Cloud or Luminate or any of the other products out there to try to get really honed. I think I saw something from it was either strata or intent wise that now we're approaching, I think it was like 40% of brands are participating in some of those cloud-based programs now to be able to better target their shoppers.


    So I mean, I'm assuming within the organizations they're engaging some of these shopper marketing and analytic teams to help with that effort. But I also, I think in some of the basic retail media targeting, it's expanded enough now that you don't even have to engage those teams. You can just say, I want to target people who bought this in the past, and that's like an option. It's like in the dropdown, or I want to target shoppers who've looked at my products in the past. So you can go after some loyalty objectives, right, within the retail media advertising consoles for these retailers. And that's really the takeaway. It's like for ways you want to reward the shopper in the reward me kind of idea. You get what you put into this if you're putting, and so thinking about what you want to accomplish, identifying goals early and tracking against them I think is really key.


    And so this is like if you're trying to use a rewards-based program to drive engagement, then you're going to want to look at engagement metrics. If you're really focused more on a transaction, you're going to want to look at transaction metrics. So it's thinking about what are you trying to accomplish? And going back to that Lulu example, it's probably both, but a lot of it's on the engagement side. Did people come in to engage with the, or go onto the site to engage with the early access option? Are they taking the classes? Are they attending the events? Those are more like engagement metrics as opposed to transaction metrics, which you have to believe will follow, right? If you have strong engagement and you have a good brand, the transactions will follow.

    Peter Crosby (35:03):

    Well, that's the thing with Lululemon, I would imagine. Part of it is what is an experience that makes in this economic environment, even though Lululemon probably targets the upper shopper, but in this environment makes it worth paying the additional money. So yes, if the clothes are great, but all things being equal, you were talking earlier about people want feel sort of responsible with their money. If there's more of that pressure, something else, some other halo around it needs to, I would imagine help prop up the, maybe even in some ways intersect that field, that desire for being responsible with your money because, but I'm getting these things, I'm getting yoga classes and I'm getting that sort of helps to bring them back to this is worth my money.

    Andrea Leigh (35:58):

    It helps them feel responsible to kind of use their word from earlier with their finances. If it's not just about the transaction, they're getting a lot of other value out of the experience as well that they can place value on those things. Another great example is Claire's. If you get your ears pierced there, you can redeem a pair of earrings every month. And so that drives repeat traffic back into the stores. It's a little bit more of a transactional program, but as a result, they get transactions and then they always are doing, I always forget what their deal is. It's like a buy two get one free or buy three get three free. Or they have a very complicated BOGO structure within their stores. And so then you're redeeming that free pair of earrings, but then if you buy something else, you end up kind of walking out of there with more than you came for. So that's another great example of they sort of hook you with a service and then they're driving a lot of repeat foot traffic and it's a very transactional program and it seems like it performs pretty well for them. I heard they're about to do some popups in Target.

    Peter Crosby (37:03):

    Well, Andrea, thank you so much for bringing us this Quarter's AIR report, although that makes it redundant, isn't it? Because anyway,

    Andrea Leigh (37:14):

    It's okay.

    Peter Crosby (37:16):

    Thanks for giving us AIR today.

    Andrea Leigh (37:19):

    You needed to breathe, Peter.

    Peter Crosby (37:21):

    Oh my God, especially, we're recording this one week before our conference starts. So right now I'm a little bit short on air, but very much looking forward to it. By the time folks listen to this, Andrea will have run a kickass panel at the Digital Shelf Summit and we're in advance grateful for that when people actually hear this. So anyway, as always, Andrea's very generous Allume group is and sharing the report with the DSI. So when you hear this, you can go to the partner section of the DSI website and take a look at the report. And then even in some ways, an additional value that the brand of Lum Group provides is all of the things that they referenced for you to be able to dig even deeper on the things that you care about. So Andrea, thank you so much for providing all of that for our audience.

    Andrea Leigh (38:10):

    Of course. And we do this as a workshop for brands too, so with some customization and really thinking about the shopper trends that are impacting them. So that's another way that we deliver air is onsite with brands. Hands-on,

    Peter Crosby (38:24):

    Andrea is on LinkedIn, or you can always go to Allume group's website. So thanks, Andrea.

    Andrea Leigh (38:31):

    Thanks Peter. Thanks Lauren. Nice to see you guys.

    Peter Crosby (38:34):

    Thanks again to Andrea for all the wisdom. Their reports are also available in the partner content section under the resources tab on our website, digital shelf institute.org. Become a member. While you're there, why don't you, thanks for being part of our community.