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Interview

Interview: Q3 Data Recap, with Andrea Leigh, Founder and CEO, Allume Group

We are always grateful to have Andrea Leigh, formerly of IdeoClick and now Founder and CEO of ecommerce education consultancy Allume Group, on the podcast to put the data from the most recent earnings reports and shareholder meetings in perspective. Q3 was a hot one across shopper, ecommerce, and omnicommerce trends, and Andrea brought all the facts and analysis. 

Transcript:

Peter:
Welcome to Unpacking the Digital Shelf, where we explore brand manufacturing in the digital age. Hey everyone, Peter Crosby here from the Digital Shelf Institute. We are always grateful to have Andrea Leigh, formerly of Ideoclick, and now founder and CEO of e-commerce education consultancy, Allume Group, on the podcast to put the data from the most recent earnings reports and shareholder meetings in perspective. Q3 was a hot one across shopper e-commerce and omnicommerce trends, and Andrea brought all the facts and analysis. Andrea, welcome back to the podcast. Lauren and I just look forward to these quarterly visits with you to share the latest commerce trends with us. We're really excited to have you.

Andrea:
Thanks for having me. I'm glad to be here.

Peter:
So we have seen a shift in commerce behavior from the age of the shopper ... where the shopper gets what the shopper wants ... to kind of an age of the P&L ... where inflation, supply chain, and rising costs are causing everyone, brands and retailers, to rethink their strategies and sort of rationalize the way forward. And I was wondering, A, do you agree with that statement? Do you agree that that's been a shift and we need to figure out how to do all of this profitably, and still serve the consumer? That we have to find that balance?

Andrea:
Yeah. I think that's the tension right now for all retailers and brands alike is figuring out how do we continue to service this divergent shopper and meet all of their needs and meet them where they're at, but do so in a sustainable way. Because I think a lot of retailers and brands saw over the last couple of years with the pandemic that e-commerce can be really expensive if not done really thoughtfully.

Peter:
And I have to take a moment, as we start the new year by the time this runs. Just thinking about that trend really made me reflect on the tremendous amount of innovation that brands and retailers have done over the past few years to adapt in a time of COVID, where the digital shelf was the only shelf and where people needed to be safe to get their products, and then created convenience out of that as well. I just want to acknowledge that because sometimes, we spend a lot of time on the podcast talking about how everyone moves so slowly and there are silos. But a lot of really amazing stuff happened in the last few years and I just want to sort of shout out to the audience for the work that they've done, and the work that partners like you have done to help inspire and educate around a lot of that.

Andrea:
Thank you. And I couldn't agree more on congratulating some of the brands and retailers, or maybe even all the brands and retailers, in just really stepping up these last couple of years, in innovating and finding ways to be nimble in your organization. These have been some really trying years. I mean, I think as the last couple of years have probably been the most disruptive that many have seen in their careers, we saw just a lot of brands and retailers try to get creative and figure out how to service the shopper, and I think it's really inspiring.

Peter:
And so as we see the new challenges of inflation and continued supply chain, and whatever's coming down the pike this year, tell us, based on the report that you are getting from the last quarter, how the shopper is changing in this new environment.

Andrea:
So as you know, and probably some of the listeners know, Allume Group puts out a quarterly report. We call it the E-Commerce Insider Quarterly. We cover key shopper, manufacturer, e-commerce and trends, and then we do a specific deep dive on Amazon, and then we provide some takeaways for brands and retailers. And so that's what we're going to talk about today are some of the highlights from that report. The shopper is changing. There was a really interesting article that Jason Goldberg just wrote this month on ... I think it was on Forbes-

Peter:
Yeah, it was.

Andrea:
Where he talked about what's happening with e-commerce and how there's been a lot of discussion that e-commerce is down or it's decelerating or whatever, and it really depends on what you're looking at. He claims a lot of folks are making the mistake of correlating sort of e-commerce growth with Amazon's stock price. It's really nuanced when you start looking at it by category. Apparel saw a huge shift online, but a lot of that's moved back to stores. Grocery's kind of been stickier from an e-commerce perspective post-pandemic. But I think what we're seeing at a really high level, and what some our research that we've been doing suggests, is that, really, the role of the Internet's changing. That's what I think is most interesting.
So contrary to what seems logical, shopping online is actually becoming less transactional versus more transactional. And there's this great GWI report that we have in our suggested further reading in our EIQ report that talks about the reasons that consumers go online to begin with. A bigger role of the internet for consumers is for inspiration, and so bumping up about four places in terms of reasons that shoppers go online is for inspiration. And then, researching things and looking for information is going down in terms of reasons that shoppers go online. And then when they are looking for information, they're typically searching social media or TikTok or Instagram, whatever, for answers.
Keeping up with news, and even researching products, decreased as a primary reason in 2022. And then like I said, finding new ideas and inspiration moved up four places to sixth place. So that's really interesting to me. They had a great quote in their report that says, "Younger audiences start their search from a place of curiosity and expect to be led down a fun rabbit hole of new ideas, rather than directed to a list of brands and products." I think we have spent ... a lot of us in the e-commerce profession have spent ... the last few years trying to figure out how to reduce clicks and reduce friction, and just get the shopper to the products as fast as we can.
Don't worry about storytelling. Just get them right to the point of activation. And this research is showing that ... at least the younger generations ... it's not what they want. They're looking to have a journey. So that's really interesting to me in terms of what does that mean for consumer brands from an advertising perspective, from a communicating with shoppers perspective? What does that mean for retailers in terms of how to create more engaging experiences? That was a surprising discovery for us in looking through some of the research, that that role of the internet is changing in what the shopper is looking for.

Lauren:
Andrea, do you think that creates a new place for social commerce to come into play? I feel like it's been out there and it's in pockets, and it's definitely in other countries much larger than it is in North America. But do you think now this will provide much more of an opportunity? Because that's what helps you do the inspiration, the rabbit holing down an Instagram post or something like that.

Andrea:
For sure. And if you look at Cyber Week, some of the reporting there ... I think this might have been CNBC. No, this was the Salesforce report. 76% of Cyber Week e-commerce traffic was from mobile devices, so we kind of can expect that. But social media referrals represented 10% of the traffic. And while that seems small, it's up 22 points year-on-year. So yes, to answer your question, Lauren. The data is certainly showing that social shopping is growing. It's small, but growing really quickly. And I think that the brands and retailers who can really capitalize on that are the ones that are going to win.
Another trend that we're seeing from a shopper perspective is that they want to be involved in the product development journey. And Mintel, in their global consumer trends report, had a great quote where they said, "Brands have to make room for the new C in their C-suite. Consumers are investing, co-creating, and voting for change alongside brands." And this one was really interesting to me too. A couple years ago when Clubhouse was a thing, Melissa Burdick and I did this clubhouse with the owner for Wise. Wise is an electronics manufacturer. They make headphones and lots of other products. And they were telling us that if they had every additional dollar that they had to spend on marketing, they spent it on Reddit. Because they had these really strong consumer forums on Reddit, and they got a lot of product feedback that way to help improve some of the existing products.
They allowed consumers to vote and give input into new products they were going to develop. I think this is also an interesting trend, albeit a smaller one than the one we discussed previously about using the internet for inspiration. But figuring out ways to collaborate with the consumers on the product development journey, I think, is really interesting. And so just looking at some of those examples and thinking about how brands might collaborate more with consumers. And there's lots of mediums to do that now with social media and forums like Reddit. It's interesting.
Lauren:
So Andrea, shopper trends. We talked about a couple of those. Now when we think about the e-commerce side and we're looking at omnicommerce changing the game and really thinking about the holistic journey, what are you seeing from the e-commerce side of things?
Andrea:
Yeah. I think we're on a journey in terms of e-commerce and retailers' sort of digital evolution. I think where we started was this world of omnichannel, and that was ... and to some degree, brands participated in this as well ... how do we get parody in assortment and programs between e-commerce, physical retail, and digital retail for an omni player? That's where we started: omnichannel. And then I think where we moved next, and where we kind of are now, is omnicommerce. And that's thinking about how do we remove points of friction? So how do we make it easier for the shopper to go back and forth? An example of that might be returning, being able to do online returns in store, or having BOPIS, or whatever it is. Kind of blending those experiences, making them a little bit more frictionless between physical and digital.
But where I think we're headed next, and where I think the winning retailers will be playing, is in more of a differentiated experience across physical and digital, and that might look like more complimentary experiences. So first, we thought it was important to have parody. And I think now, a lot of retailers are realizing that you actually need a differentiated experience for the shopper who's buying online or click-to-order, versus the one that's coming into the store. A great example of that ... we just actually gave them an award for Best Omni Experience on The CPG Guys when we did The Omnis this month ... is Sephora. Sephora does a really nice job of this because as a shopper, there are different benefits to shopping in-store versus shopping online, but they both have clear benefits.
So when shopping online, the shopper can access their robust reviews platform. Maybe because they only do beauty, they have a pretty best-in-class tax search taxonomy and filtering system within their architecture of their site. You can get samples. You can choose your samples at the end when you go to checkout. You're able to engage with their loyalty program. And then in a lot of cities now, you can actually shop by skin issue. I mean, they have a lot of ways for you to discover products on the platform. When you go in store, however, you have a different experience, which also has some unique benefits. You can work with a beauty consultant and learn about the products. You can try things on. And then they have that minis aisle, which I have heard anecdotally is the most productive maybe-

Lauren:
I'm a victim!

Andrea:
20 square feet of real estate in a store. Because they feel like samples, but they're actually all $30 each or something. It gets me every time.

Lauren:
Me too.

Andrea:
They have a differentiated experience online and in-store, but they've also got the parody and then they have also removed a lot of the friction. But now, they've kind of moved onto this next evolution of differentiation. I think that's where the winning retailers are going to sit. There's this new H&M format. Did you guys see this? It's lifestyle, so they have concerts and local artists and things in this enormous footprint store. And then they have the clothes kind of around with dressing rooms, so you can try them on and then listen to some music. It's more of an experience.

Peter:
Wow.

Andrea:
And from the H&M leadership, it's meant to show you the different places you could wear the clothes or occasions or give you more opportunities to interact with them, as opposed to just being in a small dressing room, which who knows if it'll be successful. But this kind of experimentation, in terms of differentiating that in-store experience and the online experience, I think is really cool.

Peter:
Well, that's what I'm excited about. Digging into what's happening to respond to that. The need for inspiration, the rabbit holing as Lauren would say. How are brand manufacturers reacting to this expanded way to engage with the consumer?

Andrea:
Yeah. Well, first I think it's important to note some of the other challenges that some of these retailers are facing right now. They're having to go through this digital evolution that we just talked about, but they also are going through a reckoning of investments of their own. And so it's hard to respond to that divergent shopper when things are so expensive. They're dealing with overstocks. They have kind of a COVID hangover of overstocked product. They're working with suppliers that have higher cost of goods. Labor costs for stores and other types of roles are rising. And then you have this shopper that we just talked about, who's demanding differentiation, and you have incremental investments to support that. And as retailers, they're making a lot of investments in their retail media platforms, but those aren't all going to pay out right away. So there's kind of a waiting period until those grow and develop audiences.
They have cost deficiencies that have to come from somewhere. I think where they're coming from are less staffing, figuring out ways to do more with less from a staffing perspective. Certainly in stores, I think, we're all seeing that. And then some operational efficiencies in picking and ordering and how we're managing inventory. But also, pressure on suppliers-

Peter:
Yeah.

Andrea:
For lower costs. But actually, suppliers have higher costs. So in kind of turning to those brand manufacturers, we ran a LinkedIn survey a couple of weeks ago where we asked brands to list their top challenge area going into 2023, and 50% of them listed profitability with retailers as their top challenge area. These profit concerns have now surpassed supply chain challenges. So last quarter, we gave the same survey. Supply chain challenges wasn't at the top, but it was a close second to profitability. The gap was much bigger this time around because all parties are kind of dealing with this changing shopper behavior and rising costs and thinner margins.
I think some of the things we're seeing from the consumer brand perspective is they have some really tough decisions on the rising cost of retail media spend. So now, everyone has an ad platform. And in a lot of cases it's pay-to-play. On Amazon, it's been pay-to-play for a while in that you won't sell as much if you don't advertise. But if you look at some of the omniplayers, it's part of the annual vendor negotiation, so you're committed to certain levels of advertising. So they're kind of grappling with that. I think a lot of brands are working on some challenges around build versus buy. As we know, the agency space has become prolific. You can hire an agency to provide you with any piece of data now, or support you in any way as a consumer brand in e-commerce. And so I think that the brands are really thinking about, "Where can we consolidate? Where do we have overlapping support? What are some ways we can do this ourselves or build it in-house?" And then obviously, working on some tough decisions around assortment planning and manufacturing considerations, and things like that.
Kind of what we're seeing is that these brands are having to figure out how to retrain their organizations to be more flexible. We ran a share group earlier this week on organizational readiness for e-commerce. And that word, "flexible," came up so often during the conversation, which means figuring out ways to demand tighter measurements on the impact of retail media spend, maybe figuring out ways to provide some P&L flexibility to shift budgets around on media when things aren't working. But just finding ways to be more flexible and agile to the changing shopper and to the retailers who are continuing to put pressure on the manufacturers for lower costs. And then I think the other thing we heard in that share group, which I thought was interesting, was that a lot of these brands are thinking about some of these tier two e-commerce players, and maybe prioritizing them a little bit more because they're lower cost to serve right now. They don't have the commitments from a retail media perspective that maybe some of the big players have, and so where can these brands look for profitable growth right now?

Lauren:
So Andrea, I want to pause for a second to really emphasize the flexibility and the agility here because I think we talk about a lot how brands need to pivot and they need to change as the entire industry changes. I think this is such a perfect example: the omnichannel experience, being flexible with your org structure. There is no set it and forget it. And I have so many conversations with brands all the time that are like, "Well, this is what my structure is," or, "This is the plan we've already had." I think it's important to really emphasize that that might need to change every year. That might need to be tweaked during that year and you really need to be able to pivot as the broader industry changes. And I just want to double-click on that a bit because I think that's such an important fact for any leader at any level to hear that their org structure might not be the same every year, and their process and their priorities really need to pivot and change.

Andrea:
I couldn't agree more, Lauren, and I think you said that really well. If brands and retailers took one thing away from our conversation today, I hope it's that they need to be flexible this year.
Lauren:
Yeah, and continue to be flexible as they stay in this industry. So I'm glad that came up as a part of this.

Peter:
And just the strong through line that we're having here ... without planning it, really, around the need to get to profitability and to understand how to do this responsibly ... that requires flexibility because what's being thrown at you from all different sides is happening as we speak. And when I think about that, I remember, Lauren ... I mean, the series that you and Chris Perry at Firstmovr just finished on looking at both sides of the P&L. That you have to not only understand your P&L as a brand manufacturer, but you also need to understand your retailer's P&L so you know what leverage they're trying to get over you to run their business. I would point our listeners towards that series, and we are going to have podcast episodes that are also redoing the stuff that you did on the webinar. I think that data's really good to look at as well.

Lauren:
Totally agree, Peter. And Andrea, I know that a lot of times when we think about what's coming next, we look to Amazon, to your point about looking at their stock prices to try and determine what's coming next. What are we seeing from Amazon and what's changing? Or what are they doing that maybe we should look out for?

Andrea:
Yeah. Well first, there was a great interview with him that was just done this month at a PitchBook event in New York ... it's on YouTube and it's in our suggested reading as well ... where Andy Jassy talked for 45 minutes about all kinds of topics. It was really interesting to hear his point of view on where Amazon is and where they're headed. Couple of the things that he called out ... They asked him about all the extra capacity they'd built and how they were over-leveraged. Maybe that's not the right word, but got a little over their skis on space and it had some painful impacts to their P&L, and he said he would do the same thing again. It was the right decision. They'll grow into it. They're still feeling really bullish on their growth.
And it's interesting because there was an Evercore study that was reported by the Wall Street Journal around customer satisfaction of Amazon. The percentage of customers who report being extremely or very satisfied with Amazon fell this year to 79%, down from a high of 88%. I think we've all experienced, probably, some hiccups Amazon's had during the pandemic. But at the end of the day, their e-commerce business continues to grow. If you look at online stores this last quarter, it grew 7% year-over-year. That's pretty good, considering the comp that they have that they're dealing with, the year-on-year comp. But it's becoming a smaller percentage of their total revenue. So if you look at online stores and third party, it's still less than 50% of their total revenue now. And a lot of their revenue is now coming from software. That's AWS, subscription services, advertising services, et cetera.
But I think what we're starting to see from a theme perspective with Amazon is that they're starting to behave a little more like a grown-up company, versus the startup that we have always expected them to be, right? We've always expected the super strong growth, and the whole business is doing really well. They grew 15% last quarter year-on-year. So they're still delivering pretty decent growth, but they're starting to look more like a mature organization, versus the startup environment that we've come to expect from them, and doing things like layoffs and rationalizing investments and just kind of behaving in a more mature way.
Another thing that I thought was interesting ... with all the layoffs and a lot of them being focused on Alexa ... I wondered if maybe they were just going to kind of close down that whole division. But he, in the interview, was still pretty bullish on it. He said that he still felt like they were building the best virtual assistant, they still believe in the vision, but that it's just taking a lot longer than they'd expected. He said several times that it is driving a lot of shopping transactions, and they must be doing a lot of work to understand how to attribute some of that interaction that we have with those devices to sales. And so I would love to look at that data. They'll probably never share it but-

Peter:
No, they probably won't.

Andrea:
It'd be great to see it. They're in the same boat as all the other retailers. They ended up with too much inventory, they had too much space, and dealing with a really unpredictable shopping behavior, and I think they're trying to rightsize the business just like everyone else.

Peter:
Speaking of shopping behavior, I wanted to go there because when I think of inspired rabbit hole shopping, that's not my thought of Amazon. I was wondering how you think they will respond to those trends that they're seeing. Or do you think they already are and I just haven't really seen it very much?

Andrea:
I think that they are. I think some of those projects, it takes them longer to get scaled than it used to. I mean, they just launched their answer to a TikTok ... I'm blanking on what it's called right now ... but a short-form video, shoppable video answer to that, and so I think they're trying to find ways to do that. They also are really leaning into the use of influencers and content creators, particularly in the fashion space. There are a number of really high-quality YouTubers that I follow now that I'm pretty sure work for Amazon because they're mostly featuring Amazon fashion. That's a great way to get at the shopper from a creative and inspired perspective, and then direct them to Amazon for the transaction. But the theme is that they have to do these things off their platform, because their platform is so transactional and they can't change it at this point.
We know that all the shoppers go there. 80%, 90% of them just type stuff in the search bar and go from there, and browsing is a mess and there's too many products. So I think in the areas where we have seen them experiment with being a little bit more of an inspired shopping journey, it's had to be off their platform. And it's been on other platforms, or on other platforms created by them, so I think that's how they're going to have to get there. But at its core, their platform is addressing... I mean, based on this GWI research ... an aging shopper. The one that wants the transactional experience, not the one that wants discovery. I mean, maybe they can get there through some of their automation and personalization. And I think they believe they're getting there with their advertising. That has a huge component of relevance built into it. And so maybe it feels like personalization, but I think they got a long way to go.

Peter:
All right. Andrea, with all of the things that we've been talking about throughout this podcast ... of the drive towards profitability, of the need for new experiences, of the pressure to spend and invest with retailers ... what do brands do about it? What should they be anticipating in the coming year, in making sure that they have the right strategy and resources and agility in place to win?

Andrea:
So if you were to fast forward through the whole podcast, these would be the takeaways for the brands, right?

Peter:
Exactly.

Andrea:
I think I would boil it down to four things. I think it is agility. We talked a little bit about that earlier. Agility to react to changing shopper behavior and changing retailer priorities. I think brands need to really create space and budget to change course quickly and find ways to gain flexibility.

Peter:
I was thinking about that. You have to have such a great relationship with your finance partner these days because it sort of challenges the traditional budget planning and organizational structure, I would think.

Andrea:
It really does. And in the share group this week, we were hearing about all these little hacks that some of the brands are using in their P&Ls and with their finance partners to maybe redefine what some of those buckets could mean. So for example, they had a budget for agencies or contractors to support something ... or maybe it was agencies. But instead, they were in-housing and then they were using that line item ... That's where they were putting the expense of the contractors, even though that wasn't actually what it was designated for. So I think these little hacks on the P&L and, again, that flexibility and that relationship with those finance partners is huge.
Finding that space so that you can quickly change course and gain some flexibility within your organization, it's huge. I think it can take the form of flexibility around staffing. So maybe instead of FTEs, you're looking at in-housing, which has more flexibility inherently built into it or some flexibility in the P&L like we just talked about. And I think that agility, too, isn't just internal. It's figuring out how to experiment with some of your retail partners and focus on some of the platforms that are helping shoppers discover your product. [inaudible 00:30:51]

Lauren:
Andrea, I would almost pair that with resilience, right? As you were talking, it was exactly what I was thinking of. Because all of that is a test and learn too. It's a pivot. It's a change. It's, "See if it's right and maybe change and go back to the way you were doing it before," or go to a new way of thinking. And I feel like people shouldn't be afraid. Organizations shouldn't be afraid of doing that. If it didn't work, try something new.

Andrea:
Absolutely. This is for sure the time for that. And as we covered in the intro, brands have been doing a great job of that for the last couple of years, being flexible and trying and testing and learning, and making decisions quickly. We just need to continue a lot of that behavior. So agility, huge. The second takeaway, I think, is around really putting a focus on some of that loyalty marketing and that repeat business for consumable clients, and even for some other types of manufacturers. The shopper is discovering products in so many different ways right now. We talked about how we're starting from more of an inspiration led POV. There's social. There's video content. There's so much out there, so they're expos exposed to so many more brands than they ever were before.
And we didn't really talk about this too much in the report. We covered it in our last quarter's report, about brand switching being higher than ever, shoppers trading down due to inflationary pressures. And so as some of these shopper budgets get tighter, giving the shopper reasons to stick with your brand is so critical. And obviously, it's cheaper to keep an existing shopper than it is to acquire a new one, so this isn't the time to lose them. I mean don't forget about that loyalty marketing and really focusing on those existing shoppers. So that'd be our second takeaway.
And then the third is to seek out profitable growth. So again, we're hearing some of these brands focus on some of the tier two e-commerce players, or even just retailers in general, that are possibly more profitable for the brands. And so it's time to maybe give some attention to some of those guys and also think about ways to be as efficient as possible with the retail media spend. I think we have all put a lot of emphasis on that over the last few years, and there's so many tools and so many measurement capabilities now available to us to help us be really efficient. And then, focusing on some of those small scale advertising and media experiments that we could scale up, right? Again, kind of going back to that flex flexibility. So that's three.
And then four is find ways to invest in the future. We talked about this on the last podcast, but when budgets are tight and everyone's kind of hunkering down, your competitors are hunkering down. The brands that can still find a budget and time and resources to innovate and invest, plant some seeds for the future, are the ones that are going to win. And so it's really hard to do that right now, but it's necessary. So find opportunities to plant some seeds for the future. Invest in that sustainable packaging that you've put on the back burner during COVID, or in that product development for the product that is really going to resonate with tomorrow's consumer. Those are, I think, some investments that are important to carve out right now.

Peter:
Really, really good advice, Andrea. That's why I have such incredible respect for the listeners on our podcast, the members of the DSI. Everyone out there who has been through this period and is now entering another period of uncertainty and pressure. Taking on that challenge and often being the drivers of those initiatives and change because this is where the growth is coming from. And so being able to make that case and build that broader case so that the rest of the organization will kind of come along is an incredibly hard job on top of their daily job. I have such respect for it. The list of four that you put out are absolutely right and really hard. None of this is sort of like, "Oh, great! Yeah, no. Thanks, Andrea. I got it," right? But you talk to so many manufacturers and retailers. Are you finding the appetite for that last one in particular? Do people feel like it's possible, or is everyone in sort of crisis mode at the moment?

Andrea:
I mean, the manufacturers seem to fall into two camps. There's ones who are still struggling with supply chain issues ... either not enough inventory or way too much ... and just managing to the day-to-day, and things are really hard. And then there are some that, for whatever reason ... whether it's strategy, or in some cases it's just luck, whatever product category you're in or locations you were manufacturing in or whatever ... are in a little bit of a better spot. Some of them are focusing on some of those future initiatives, and I think that's so key to find ways to do that, even if it feels like the day-to-day is so much right now.

Peter:
Yeah. Well, Andrea, as always, thank you for coming here and sharing these insights with our audience. We really appreciate it.

Andrea:
Yeah, thank you for having me! It's always a pleasure to talk to the two of you. Looking forward to next quarter.

Peter:
Yeah and as we close ... if you don't mind a sort of point of personal privilege ... Today is our production engineer's last recording with us. Nolan Piccola has been with us, first, as a co-op from Northeastern University for six months, and then has been consulting with us for the remainder of his college career. I just wanted to thank him for making this engine roar and keeping us honest and cutting all my stupid parts, which are many. You'd be surprised. So Nolan, I just wanted to thank you. Just let everyone hear your voice on your last day.

Nolan:
Oh my God. Thank you, Peter. Yeah, it was a pleasure working on this podcast. And thank you to our listeners for listening.

Lauren:
Thanks, Nolan!

Peter:
Thank you, Nolan.

Andrea:
Good job, Nolan!

Peter:
Thanks again, Andrea.

Lauren:
Thanks, Andrea.

Peter:
Thanks again to Andrea for bringing both the news and the expert commentary in one package. Links to the latest EIQ report are available on the Allume Group's homepage, spelled A-L-L-U-M-E. If you want to keep up with all things DSI, head on over to digitalshelfinstitute.org and click to become a member in the upper right-hand corner. Thanks for being part of our community.