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Interview

Interview: How the Alcohol Beverage Industry Is Responding to the Surge in Demand from Digital Consumers, with Wayne Duan, VP of Ecommerce and Digital Commerce at Constellation Brands

One of the biggest growth categories during COVID-19 is alcohol beverages, and consumers are using digital platforms to get it. Wayne Duan, VP of Ecommerce and Digital Commerce at Constellation Brands joins Peter Crosby and Rob Gonzalez to discuss how the alcohol beverage industry is managing this rise in digital consumers, and what of these new trends may stick and apply across other categories.

Transcript

Peter:

Welcome to unpacking the digital shelf where we explore brand manufacturing in the digital age. Hey, Peter Crosby here from the digital shelf Institute, the data is clear. One of the most essential categories in the time of COVID is the alcohol beverage industry. Certainly if my liquor cabinet is any indication, how are manufacturers adapting to their new digital consumers and responding to the surge? What of these new behaviors will stick? What does it take from an organization to be everywhere they need to be for their consumers and industry? In this moment, there was no better leader to talk to than Wayne Duan, who runs eCommerce and digital commerce at constellation brands, a fortune 500 manufacturer of beer, wine and spirits. Rob and I each cracked a Corona and dug into it all with Wayne. Here's the conversation. So Wayne, first of all, thank you so much for joining us, but I have to start by asking constellation brands has a lot of recognizable brands. It has Corona, Modelo, Kim Crawford, Naomi, Robert Mondavi. How are your brands performing during this time?

 

Wayne :

Yeah, thanks. Thanks for having me and hope you and your loved ones are safe and well during these unprecedented times. You know, we released our earnings a couple of weeks ago and we had a really strong performance. Our brains continue to Excel during this period with really loved brands such as, you know, Corona, Modelo, Kim Crawford, Mayumi Robert Mondavi as you listed and I'm sure with many of us spending more time with family and then we're used to, we're, we're all enjoying some of these simple intelligences and you know, we're certainly as an organization, spending the time to continue to market our brands but also want to make sure we're ensuring that we're taking care of our people in our communities. For us right now we're, we're certainly making sure we're focusing on our brands are relevant and we're a big believer that consumers don't necessarily walk away from categories. They walk away from brands and brands that no longer resonate with them are the ones that are going to struggle. And we've definitely seen really strong results over the past few weeks.

 

Rob:

There was a new Yorker comic that I saw recently where a man goes into a liquor store and has a bottle of booze that he puts on the counter to purchase and the liquor store attendee holds a dramatically larger bottle up and says, Oh, you're stuck at home with two young kids in both you and your wife are trying to work and you can't go anywhere you need this size.

 

Peter:

Yeah.

 

Wayne :

One of the trends we're definitely seeing is not only towards premiumization in terms of, and that's a macro trend in terms of price and price point, but premiumization turns to work larger pack sizes, right? So it's the 12, 18 packs the 24 packs and beer. And then in wine and spirits it's a larger sizes or just more quantities. It's definitely the consumption. I'm sh I'm sure it has not really changed that month overall, but I know for some of us we may be drinking a little bit more at home.

Peter:

Yeah. That's kind of you to say. But the consumption overall at my household has changed dramatically. I was, yeah. So I thank you for supplying my need at this moment.

 

Rob:

This is a little bit of a tangent but I just wanted to drill into for two seconds. The Packsize change that you mentioned cause in, in CPG companies over the last 10 years, they've all struggled with how do you make money online? You can't sell a $2 pack Oreos online and make any money on it. So they do these repacks where you get the eight 99 to 1299 packages because that's what you can make money shipping on. That's where the margins work out for you for eCommerce is the, is this staying inside and and ordering more booze via drizzly or via a Kroger's click and collect program or via Walmart clean collector or whatever. Is that driving the package size change or is this just a macro trend that's been happening for awhile?

 

Wayne :

Yeah, I think it's a macro trend that we've seen over the past few weeks during these really unprecedented, it's kind of shelter in place a times we're in right now. The big driver we're seeing is the consumers want to minimize the number of trips they need to make to the store or the number of orders they need to place. So when you let the numbers that the convenience channel of the drugstore channel is not growing as quickly as mass and liquor channel and the club channel and naturally in those locations you're going to say, Hey, if we're going to be at home, I'm going to get more bottles and I got in the past or I'm going to buy a larger pack size. The other thing to remember and what's a nuance to the beverage alcohol category is that a fulfillment comes out of more often than not from the store as opposed to an eCommerce warehouse. So as well as well as the kind of nuances of the three tier system, you don't really have these online exclusives that you may see in other CPG categories.

 

Peter:

And when can you go a little bit into that three tier system? Like you confront a whole different set of regulations and it varies by state if not by municipality. And so I'd love for you to talk a little bit of, so where you come from, how you come to this business, you, I know you worked with retailer previously, and then also sort of how going digital in this market is a really a different beast.

 

Wayne :

Yeah. So I joined constellation about two years ago to lead up their eCommerce team. My background previously was at Walgreens where I went through the organization and I had a wonderful opportunity to be leading our Walgreens digital commerce efforts and be able to really position Walgreen's into that leadership position within e-commerce for the drug channel. The placement right now, or the situation right now in the beverage alcohol category, it's a big wake up call, right? So for those that are not familiar, you know, one of the things that came up came out of prohibition was this three tier system where the brewer, the distiller or the wine maker has to sell products directly to a distributor and then the distributor sells it to the customer and then to the consumer. So you get these three levels, the supplier, the distributor, and then the retailer.

 

Wayne :

And so one of the challenges is for those that are any commerce or in CPG, you're so used to being able to go national, right? If you want to start selling a shampoo or some flip flops nationwide, you can do that. But in many respects, this category is just not set up in the U S to be scalable because every state municipality will have different rules in terms of what's allowed and what's not allowed for beverage alcohol, e-commerce. And it also may vary between beer, wine and spirits and the different fulfillment methods. So a lot of the retailers are really are trying to wrap their heads around how I do this in a scalable fashion.

 

Rob:

That's interesting. I mean, I remember one of, one of my friends that went to the same college I went to Williams runs a vineyard out in California and for, you know, years and years after school, we couldn't get any of his wines cause it's, you know, it's a small vineyard and they're not available locally. And we, we had a big party when you could finally order wine to be shipped to Massachusetts, which wasn't, wasn't that long ago. And so that's that. I never really thought about that point from a, from a broader marketing perspective. So when you guys are looking to launch a new brand, you have to do so on a, is it a state by state basis? Like do you have individual marketing teams and individual States, like, you know, some companies have a German operation in an Austrian operation and it's Swiss operation. Is it like that for alcohol?

 

Wayne :

Yeah, you generally have to make products available at a state level. In a, without getting into technicalities, you cannot do an exclusive for a retailer, but you can certainly say, Hey, I just want to launch this product in the Southeast or just in the Northwest. But you cannot make it exclusive to a retailer. So some of my CPG peers, you might say, Hey, I have an exclusive for Costco, or I have an exclusive for the drug channel in this category because you sell to the distributor. The distributor is, you know, given the the option to decide where they want to sell it. Now sometimes the unit economics just don't play out where convenience store probably doesn't have the space or the purchase occasion to sell a 24 pack. You know, the same way I know a mass or club channel probably doesn't want to be selling single serves of beer or canned wine. Right? So sometimes that just business models play up that way as well.

 

Peter:

And so when, when you, when you talk about the complexities of the category, and yet in this moment, particularly an incredible surgeon, online demand, and at the same time offline outlets like restaurants and bars being dramatically impacted, tell us a bit about what's happening right now. Like what are you seeing how does, how has all of this sort of coming together into the commerce of the moment?

Wayne :

Yeah. So what's really fascinating right now is the beverage alcohol e-commerce world in the U S has gone up anywhere between two X to six X in, in the past few weeks because of shelter in place. And the really kind of unprecedented times that we're in. As I mentioned earlier you know, category it brands can certainly go through relevancy channels challenges, but beverage alcohol is a category that consumers are definitely clamoring for or definitely continuing to demand during this time. And so the real challenge, and I use this, I love to use this Warren buffet quote, and the quote is really about corporate debt and leverage, but it basically, it goes along the lines of only when the tide goes out, you find out who's been swimming naked and it's during these times, I think it's really, really obvious, which are the suppliers and the retailers that have prepared for this digital transformation or the shift towards e-commerce.

 

Wayne :

And whether it's their fulfillment capabilities or how they think about the digital shelf or how they think about marketing. So it definitely is one where my team has been spending a lot of time and a great organizational support to make sure that we're successful and definitely seeing kind of this front row seat that e-commerce is not just a sales channel right now, but it's a primarily an audience reach and scale kind of a marketing ecosystem. So you, you are going to continue and I'm my belief that that's some of the previous barriers are going to continue to, to tumble as the consumer is voting with his or her wallet.

 

Peter:

Yeah. Tell me a little bit about what you're seeing in the restaurant industry as it's sort of in a, in a sad hibernation right now, but are you hearing the under undercurrent of some digital shifts happening there as well as, as the, you know, as hopefully we've start to emerge out of this.

 

Wayne :

Yeah, and I, I think, you know, constellation and I think the entire beverage alcohol industry, we definitely want to be part of the economic solution and part of the economic recovery. So just kind of talking shop a little bit here and the beverage alcohol world, you have this term called on premise and off premise. So on-premise is basically restaurants, casinos, stadiums, cruise ships, off-premise are essentially just stores, right? The on-premise channel, generally speaking for the industry is about 20% and the off from his channel is about 80% of the industry in the past few weeks. As you've seen the pantry loading going on in the off premise channel, it's essentially offset the decline with the on premise channel essentially being shut down at this time. And I, for a lot of our customers, whether they're changed or independence there, they're being forced to really have to re-examine their business model.

 

Wayne :

And how do you really differentiate yourself during these times and who do you partner with? What's the unit economics and what's the experience that is necessary. And I think coming out of this kind of economic recovery, the on premise channel or this, the notion of dining is going to be very different, right? I'm sure some restaurant tours and restaurant operators are going to really ask, do I need this much seating space? Because that's rent I gotta pay. How do I think about the packaging of my food before I, you know, give it to a courier to deliver it. And specifically in the beverage alcohol world, one of the interesting nuances is the price for beverage alcohol. So when you get it at a restaurant you typically are paying a premium. So a bottle of Kim Crawford could go for about 30 or $40 in the on-premise channel. When you go to a store, you can get that for about $15. So all of a sudden when you're gonna start doing a delivery experience for that same bottle of wine, do I want to be paying that premium for that bottle of wine that I'd be getting the restaurant versus using some of the mini delivery services to get it for $15?

 

Rob:

No. If, if I look at another industry is just an example, the movie theater attendance over the last 10 years has been declining in general and it's been declining a lot for younger people. So people that are 15 to 30, they just, they really go to the movies a lot less than they did 10 years ago and even a lot less than they did 20 years ago. And now the movie theaters are closed. And there's a lot of speculation as to man, when the movie theaters reopened, a lot of these people just aren't going to go back to the movies. You know, people are doubling down on, like, you see the rise of the OTC, you see the rise of Disney plus, I mean, everybody's signing up the Disney plus right now. Is there, is there a similar trend or any similar trends that you know of in the restaurant industry and on-prem as it relates to beverage is we're, we're restaurants doing really well right up until this crisis. And when people expect them to do really well coming out of this crisis or like what, what, what is the if any view of the industry as to how they're going to, they're going to recover?

 

Wayne :

Well, I think one of the human truths or the consumer truces we're, we're social animals, right? And there's nothing better to be able to get together with friends and over food and drinks. And so there, I think there's always going to be a really strong on-premise kind of dining scene. But I think what's really going to come of this is the premium or the differentiation around experience. So it's not just the quality of the food but the vibe, right? The ambiance, the drinks menu, the music, all of these things are going to be really important differentiators now because if there is a good substitute in terms of dining at home and one of the macro trends that we see as a company is this, this term called home payment where you're seeing with some younger consumers who are not going out and they're just kind of hanging out with friends at home.

 

Wayne :

That is going to be an interesting countervailing force. But you know, Rob, to your question, I think a big piece as well is also do these restaurant operators have enough cash to be able to come out of this with the necessary tailwind? But I don't think that the overall channel will go through a metamorphosis, but you're still going to get people who want to break bread, enjoy a glass of wine with friends out, you know, out of the house. I'm sure some of us are all kind of feeling cabin fever, right? And that's going to be really part of the social experience.

 

Peter:

Hey Wade, I also want to point out just and you did not mention this to me. I saw it in the news that constellation is part of the restaurant relief America campaign raising really millions of dollars to help restaurant workers that have been affected by this, by this pandemic. And I just think that effort for you and for all of your compatriots across the industry is, is a really impressive effort.

 

Wayne :

Yeah. Thank you. I think it's really important. Right now that we're part of that economic solution and the economic recovery, the on premise channel is really important for us in many respects. That's where you build your brands, right? You, you enjoy that bottle of wine or you have that cocktail where you're introduced to that new beer product at in the on premise channel, then you, then you say, Hey, I'm going to go to my local store to buy that. So we, we find it really important and I think now is also not a, there is a purpose beyond profits right now and either they're a really important stakeholder for us.

 

Rob:

So in terms of brand building here I want to stick on that theme for a minute. Traditional brand building in the mass market economy of the United States has been through television and in, in, you know, beer, wine and spirits in particular. I mean, I, you know, in the nineties, everyone knew the Anheuser Busch InBev horses and stuff like that. And so I TB viewership over the last 10 years is down about 30%. And it's up just a little bit in the covert crisis. But what's really up is, is the OTC channels, the Netflix and Amazon prime and Hulu and Disney plus. And there's a lot of speculation that we're going to start seeing a lot more cord cutting, especially as sporting events. Don't, don't hold up. If you, if you guys are thinking about brand building, you're thinking about, you know, relatively newer products for constellation, like the Corona seltzers which have come out relatively recently. How big of a importance to do things like the on premise

 

Peter:

Channels or do some of the newer off-prem channels such as, you know, delivery from the liquor store? How, how important are those for brand building if they're important for brand building? How do you execute brand building through those channels?

 

Wayne :

Yeah, so, so right now I think one of the tenants is always kind of being consumer led. And, and depending on the segments that you're going after, we're making sure we're allocating our marketing dollars in the appropriate places, regardless of what channels or what forms of media. And I would include

 

Wayne :

Experience and concerts and sporting events as a form of media, regardless of what's going on and what's open, what's not open, you know, that's where we want to make sure where we're spending our dollars to get the best return and the best engagements with our brands. And so right now there is the opportunity to really go digital and I think brands are really figuring out now can I be digitally native? And we are putting a concerted effort to make sure that our existing brands are kind of going through that metamorphosis. And also we're launching brands that have more of a digital DNA to them. But we all know coming out of this, it's going to be more than just so that kind of old playbook is still going to be there, but you're going to have to change it because the consumer is going to have very different behaviors.

 

Wayne :

So one example that we're seeing right now is the access to data, right? There's that classic marketing adage of I know half of my marketing works, but I just couldn't tell you what's happened. Right? Well with a data, you're able to say, Hey, after this sec going after this segment, how many of them bought, I can track their purchasing behavior. You're able to get to a level of precision. That may be through traditional marketing. You, you couldn't do. But I think across our marketing mix you're going to have brands that are going to continue to do a lot of testing and learning, but they're also going to go after the channels that they feel do the best job in serving their consumers.

 

Peter:

And when, I think that's a common theme that we've seen throughout a lot of the manufacturer executives that we've talked to is this has a way of exposing whether or not your company really has made the investments and agility that you need to make to be able to survive in this and thrive in the, in these markets, particularly at this time. And I was wondering overall, you know, I know it's hard probably to have a sit back view of what you've been doing right now because you're still in the midst of it. But when you look at how your company has responded to this surge and also to your point about being able to show up where you need to at this time, you know, what's your, your sort of current report card for yourselves and, and how does, how and how was your organization, how should listeners to this podcast that are trying to think about report card,

 

Rob:

You know, what are the things that you think about that have been been working for you?

 

Wayne :

Yeah, I I think and now has been a really good time to reflect on what are the areas and how have you prioritized your resources, right? Content integrity, as basic as it may sound for digital shelf management. It is something that I know we have spent a lot of resources on and that's something that we've been really happy with our results. But there's other areas that are always opportunities. I think overall, I think one of the elegant realities of what's kind of developed over the past year least is that decision making has been a lot faster because you know, with great limitations comes great creativity and trust. And it's really ignited the leaders in the organization and exposed and highlighted the ones that fear change versus the ones that fear not changing. And you know, that that piece about changing is so important because I think in this time it's more about being directionally right, right. And it's okay to be specifically wrong and, and that is the type of mantra you want to go. So as my team and some of my peers throughout the organization are trying to continue to innovate and be getting in front of the consumers and serving the different stakeholders we have to transform while performing. So it's been a really fun experience. There's definitely areas that we need to continue to sharpen, but it's also been very validating and some of the investments and capabilities we've developed over the past few years.

 

Rob:

The, the rise in terms of agility and being directionally right. Like if we, if you look back historically, Mmm. Advertising through print media in like 2000 to 2008 was declining. But, you know, mostly okay. And then when the great recession hit [inaudible] the, the advertising that took the biggest punch in the face were newspaper and print and the measurable performance advertising channels that at that time were still relatively not young. Google in particular really gained quite a bit from it. And I wonder just in terms of the, the, the teams agility and being directionally right, places like Instacart have just recently enabled alcohol brands to pay, to play for search. And we know from Amazon, if you go back six, seven years on Amazon, the brands that were early on Amazon that did the content optimization on Amazon for organic search early, got on Amazon advertising early and develop the in house model and capabilities to win, then ended up, you know, compounding that to, to pretty sustainable leads over long periods of time. I, this is, this now feels like one of those moments and I, I'm curious whether you agree with this or not for beverage where the companies that are, I had that I've already been making those investments and have staff in place to take advantage of something like the Instacart paid search that that you could actually durable market gains like big jumps in market share and gains that will be defensible over a period of time the same way that we saw Amazon. What do you think about that?

 

Wayne :

Yeah, I think that's very true in our organization invested in partnered really early with Instacart to make sure our brands are well positioned. I think part of it still Rob is understanding, you know, the brand building opportunity. So we, we've made investments that understand how consumers are searching. And the example like the give or the stat I like to share is that in the beer category on retailer websites, 25% of searches are for the brand, 75%. Those searches are for kind of just a generic term, maybe beer, lager, IPA surveys, et cetera. And the vodka category, it's 50, 50, 50% or searching for brand, 50% are searching for for the vodka term or related term in the wine category. 5%, only 5% searches are for a brand. The other 95% is for peanut, Anwar, red wine, sparkling wine, Prosecco, Chardonnay, et cetera.

 

Wayne :

So you know, using that insight we can then kind of figure out where do we want to spend our dollars and building the brand. So having consumers search for Corona or Kim Crawford or psych your vodka and which are the terms that we need to do a little bit of a brand building by using, you know, the sponsored search terms. So you know, we've been able to use that and think about the customer lifetime value gains that we get. You know, one of the elegant truths of reality is online grocery shopping is these retailers or these platforms show what you bought last time. And in many respects when you are buying online, again, it's a very high percentage of it is what you bought last time. Cause the brick and mortar equivalent would be, Hey, welcome back to my store. I'm literally wheeling over a shopping cart, what you bought last time and you know, swap that brand of hummus or swap out the almond milk that you bought last time. But you know, 70 80% of that basket is gonna be the same as you bought last time. So just kind of imagine if that kind of played out in the brick and mortar world. That's what happening in online grocery. So we know there's a value and premium to it to ensure that you're getting in the basket early.

 

Rob:

Yeah, actually I hadn't thought about that for alcohol in particular with the brand knowledge. I'm just, I'm just like, I drink a lot of wine, probably like an embarrassing amount of wine and, and I can vouch for that and I don't, I don't, you know, like I don't remember most of the labels that I, that I drank, but I remember the ones that have a sentimental relationship for me. So Meiomi for example, which you guys produce, that's the wine that I had at my wedding. So I know Mayo means, you know you know, we drink it and you know, fairly frequently when I see it in the store, like I recognize the Mayo, me and I don't actually recognize a lot of the wines that are around it and that that connection causes me to continue to rebuy. But then if I buy something else that I like, I mean I've got an 80% chance of forgetting. Right. Whereas if you buy

 

Peter:

It, so if you're basically paying for the customer acquisition via search channel and they buy it once and it's in their cart and it's in their order history, they don't have to remember it. The cart remembers it and they can find the things they like to get. That's really, that's so, so there actually is potentially that five 95% search. I'm just thinking out loud here, could be a historical, a reflection of the way that white is bought in, you know off-prem and enjoyed off prem that online may not actually follow the same rules over time. You could see that shift. Yeah.

 

Wayne :

And the overtime that could change. But I think it speaks to the opportunity to build brands right? In the one category in particular. Yeah. For many consumers, the brand is the great parietal, Oh, I like Chardonnay. I like Sauvignon belongs. And then after that it has maybe your price points and then whether they have a pretty name, the pretty packaging. I mean, that's what honestly the average consumer faces when they get to the wine wall at most grocery stores. Right. being able to have in your portfolio brands like Robert Mondavi, Simi, Naomi, Kim Crawford allows you to kind of avoid that entire fray of people searching for white wine. Right? You want the consumer, this surfer, Kim Crawford, and that is the concerted efforts, that investment that we've made over time to, to really differentiate your brand versus it's just another fermented grape juice.

 

Peter:

And so, Wayne we w to, to close this out, I'm going to kind of do a quick round Robin of predictions with you if you're willing to go on a ride with me. All right. So let's focus on, on sort of how much of this growth is durable in your opinion. Is this new business, is it incremental? So let's start there. What, what do you think is going to happen in terms of the growth that we're seeing sort of post pandemic?





Wayne :

Yeah, I would say one disclaimer up front. Is that okay for all of those have been in any type of industry or any kind of subject matter area? You realize the more you know, the more you realize, you realize you don't know. And so these predictions will, I'll, I'm making these to learn but not to be right. So right now

 

Peter:

Or come back to you with your report. So

 

Wayne :

Coven 19 pre-code in 19 e-commerce or beverage, alcohol, e-commerce sales was 1% of the off premise sales in the U S and what the data that we're seeing over the past few weeks is this now hitting about three to 6%. And along with that is the realities of shelter in place. One of the fastest growing online Bev choppers right now is the 60 year old, 60 year old plus cohort. And that is, you know, very much part of the, the safety that needs to be put in place for that group. Coming out of this. And there will be right a recovery. I would not be surprised if there's a slight dip because you're going to have folks who want to go back to the store. But what it really provides the consumers now the optionality and these unprecedented times has really knocked down one of the main challenges for beverage alcohol online, which is the lack of awareness.

 

Wayne :

So we did this study about two years ago that we found only 60, about 65% of online grocery shoppers in States where it's legal did not know you can buy beverage alcohol online. So you're about, you know, only about 35% awareness, right? I'm sure we're going to be passing and crushing that number as an industry coming out of that. The other thing as well is a lot of these emergency resolutions or emergency accommodations that were put in place at the state levels to help support the independent liquor stores. The restaurant is where they started to allow beverage, alcohol, e-commerce. And I first see that there's going to be an oxygenation of some of these laws to become mainstays because everyone now has essentially gotten a taste of what it's like to have that convenience and you know, consumers are going to continue to the kind of demand that experience with regards to your question of is it incremental?

 

Wayne :

I think it certainly can be market share incremental for the brands and the suppliers that are leaning into this. But I think the right lens is more embracing and understand that this is going to be a channel shift. Therefore the investments that need to be made in digital e-commerce, Omni channel, what other whatever label you want to put on this, it's all about revenue protection, right? Because just because I can order this online, you know, we can go back and forth and debate if you're going to drink more as a consumer. But if you're a brand, whether you're a alcohol brand or you're a grocer, if you're not meeting the needs of the consumer and you're kind of avoiding it or skipping or just kind of seeing your hands, you're going to miss out on this entire shift and therefore it's more of a revenue protection plan.

Peter:

And particularly you were talking earlier about the idea of lifetime value and you, you almost need to invest with that lifetime, not almost, you need to invest with that lifetime value in mind versus just that next particular sale. And it seems like now is the right time to do that. Is that,

 

Wayne :

Yeah, and I think Peter, the other way I would look at it is you have a lot of brains. You have a lot of retailers that gets so close to their consumers that they're literally gonna follow them to the grave. Right? And there's this investment that needs to be made to think about that next generation shopper who is either going through the change right now because of all the conditions or you're thinking about that 18 old who when there are legal drinking age in three years, how they're going to be thinking about shopping the category, which is likely going to have a huge digital component to it right there. They're probably not going to have the patience, the willingness to just replicate the previous kind of shopping behavior that other consumers have done in the past.

 

Peter:

Well, when that that set of sort of predictions and insights closes us out for today. I just wanted to thank you so much for in the midst of this incredibly busy time to take the time to come on and share with our audience sort of what you're seeing. It's a really valuable contribution to our industry and both. Robin, I know we just really appreciate you taking the time to do this.

 

Wayne :

Great. Well thanks for having me and hope you and your listeners get the chance to enjoy one of our many great products. As a simple escape during these unprecedented times.

 

Peter:

There's nothing better than a lime in the top of a Corona, my friend. I'm a big fan. Thank you, Wayne. Man. What a great discussion. The intricacies of each category aside, the fascinating art to watch will be what lessons and trends of this time stick. Who are the people in organizations best able to respond and what the buying journey snaps back to in the months to come. Stick with the digital shelf Institute for those insights. Make sure you're signed up for our virtual summit updates at digital shelf, summit.salsify.com thanks as always for being part of our community.