Uniting Media and Merchandising for Growth at Kroger, with Jenny Holleran, VP at Kroger Precision Marketing and Jorge Alfonso, Head of Digital Merchandising at Kroger

Transcript

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Lauren Livak Gilbert (00:00):

Welcome to Unpacking the Digital Shelf, where industry leaders share insights, strategies, and stories to help brands win in the ever-changing world of commerce.

 

Peter Crosby (00:22):

Hey everyone. Peter Crosby here from The Digital Shelf Institute across brands and retailers, we are starting to see the longstanding silos that stand in the way of efficiency, growth, and accountability start to crumble. Today's guest from Kroger are living proof of the power of this with the media Maven, Jenny Holleran, VP at Kroger Precision Marketing, having the important conversations and the United Front. Together with Jorge Alfonso head of digital merchandising at Kroger, they share a deep commitment to a seamless, unified omni-channel experience for consumers that drives growth for both Kroger and for their brand partners. It's a sibling rivalry in the best way possible. Welcome to the podcast, Jenny and Jorge. We are so delighted to have you on Jenny. Say hi so people know which one is you?

 

Jenny Holleran (01:11):

Hi everyone.

 

Peter Crosby (01:13):

And Jorge, 

 

Jorge Alfonso (01:18):

that would be me. Hey, there we go. Hopefully we don't look too much alike.

 

Peter Crosby (01:19):

Well, it's an audio only podcast. Oh, wow.

 

Jenny Holleran (01:22):

Sound too much alike. Yeah,

 

Peter Crosby (01:25):

You can already tell listener. We are very excited for this dynamic duo and really looking forward to this conversation because you both work at Kroger writ large, but you were on different teams, Jenny, you retail media, Jorge, you on the digital shelf side of things, and you weren't always connected, which is the silo thing in real time, but you found your way to each other, which makes the world wonderful. And you both together have really been thinking in a more omnichannel way and sort of how your areas interact for the betterment of the consumer journey and also for the betterment of Kroger as a business. And so we really want to talk to you about that and how our brand audience should be thinking about the connection of those things. So I'm going to start off just by asking Jenny, let's start with you to just describe your role within Kroger Precision Marketing and how you sit in the overall structure. Yeah,

 

Jenny Holleran (02:26):

So Kroger Precision Marketing, I oversee our CPG and agency relationships across all things media insights, and then our loyalty business, which has been around for almost two decades now. So have that oversight and connectivity across all of our grocery CPGs. And then when you think about the agency aspect of that, all of the major holding companies as well as all of our independent agencies,

 

Peter Crosby (02:52):

That is a fast moving, changing environment.

 

Jenny Holleran (02:56):

Yeah,

 

Peter Crosby (02:56):

God bless you.

 

Jenny Holleran (02:57):

Say what keeps you up at night and I was, what's true today is not true tomorrow. And that's why

 

Peter Crosby (03:02):

It feels like that's just the world we're living in right now.

 

Jenny Holleran (03:06):

Yeah, exactly.

 

Peter Crosby (03:07):

Jorge, how about your side of the world?

 

Jorge Alfonso (03:08):

Yeah, so we recently actually just went through an organizational change, so I'll talk about that in a second. But we sit more in the core merchandising or historically have sat in the more core merchandising arm of the company. What I typically will say and how I talk about my team is we bring core merchandising to life online. So we are the connection and the catalyst between our merchandising strategy and how we show up to our customers at are omnichannel way. So that's what me and my team do where I sit in the organization. More recently, I think we have decided to gather all of the different stakeholders across our large, to your point, siloed organization under one leader Yale Coset. That change is probably two-ish months old at this point. So we're still trying to fit all the pieces underneath that organization, that new structure and build all those ways of working. But I will just say putting us all under one leader is going to be monumental for making sure that we show up to customers and the left hand is talking in the right hand and making sure that we show up in the appropriate ways.

 

Peter Crosby (04:15):

I love that. Me too. That's such a great move.

 

Lauren Livak Gilbert (04:17):

One of the reasons why we were so excited to have this podcast is because oftentimes the retail media side is over here and the digital shelf team is over here and you're not talking to each other. So I feel like we have to have a movie montage of you finding each other and look, that journey has been like. So tell us a little bit about that, because I know it wasn't always that you knew each other and you worked together and you connected. So how did it all begin?

 

Jenny Holleran (04:42):

I know I love this because it really is, if you look back over time, we're talking to all the same people. And so someone would be like, oh, I have this meeting with Jorge, I have this meeting with Jorge. I'm like, what are they even talking about? And I knew a little bit about digital merchandising. They're like, what is happening in that world? And then we were at a conference together and I remember meeting with some of our CPG partners. They're like, oh, I just had a meeting with Kroger. I'm like, well, who is here? What are you talking? What is going on? And then we started to put those pieces together and we're like, we should really be having these meetings together because they would be bringing feedback from their meeting with Jorge and his team. And then I'm sure he was hearing the feedback of all the great work that I'm doing, and obviously, and so we went from operating kind of in parallel to why don't we do this together? To even last year at the same conference, we were like, oh, I have some of these meetings. Do you want to join? I have some of these. Do you want to join to now? Hey, let's proactively plan. Who do we want to talk to together and how do we want to move those businesses forward collectively instead of just like, oh, I'll tap in here or tap in there.

 

Jorge Alfonso (05:53):

Yeah, I will echo a lot of the same. I'll say it started, it probably wasn't this synergistic combination. Jenny kind of forced her way in. I

 

Peter Crosby (06:04):

Would say I did. Yeah.

 

Jorge Alfonso (06:07):

Which was great at the time and appreciated and love where we are today. But to Jenny's point, it just made all the sense in the world we are so codependent in terms of relying on each other for growth for our organization, that having siloed conversations, talking about the same ways on how we're planning on showing up to customer, it just made all the sense to make sure that we're kind of connected at the hip on a lot of these conversations. So we've kind of had some bumps and bruises along the way in figuring out how not to step on each other's toes. But we've figured that out. And I think the CPGs also feel and appreciation, I'll say, and not having to have duplicative conversations as well. It's a lot more efficient to be talking and thinking all strategically together. So it has been helpful from that perspective, I would say.

 

Peter Crosby (07:06):

Yeah, I mean the nugget that really you mentioned is that puts you together sort of the nexus is growth, growth for Kroger, growth for CBG customers and finding what are the best ways to do that. And Jorge, I'd love it. We can start with you, but I'd love to sort of understand what does that mean? What do both sides contribute merchandising and retail media? How has that turned into a way of working that makes it it's more efficient or how does each one change what you do and because of the things you know about each other? Is that

 

Jorge Alfonso (07:48):

Makes sense? Yeah, I think a lot of it is just the communication aspect. Jenny and team should be involved and need to be involved in all of the work that we're doing from our side, if we plan on standing for innovation, if this is going to be a big bet for us, if this commodity is where we're going to drive growth for as an organization, they need to be at the forefront of those conversations so they can turn around and say, Hey, CPG, Kroger is going to lean in with you. How can we partner together to make sure that we show up in the best way possible across all of the different outlets of media and all the different ways that we're activating? So I think frankly speaking, it's just about making sure that we're all on the same page and that retail media strategy aligns with our holistic Kroger go-to-market strategy at a brand item UPC category all the way up and down the chain.

 

Lauren Livak Gilbert (08:44):

I think it's just super important to call out that for brands that are listening, they're going through the same thing. Retailers are going through the same thing as you are trying to bring the silos together, figure out who needs to be in the conversation. So the more communication, to your point, Jorge, that you can provide on the brand side and the retailer side to come together so everyone can figure this out is super helpful. And I think it's just great knowledge for the brand side to be like, oh, right, this is happening there

 

Jenny Holleran (09:09):

Too.

 

Jorge Alfonso (09:10):

Right.

 

Jenny Holleran (09:11):

It sounds like we see, sorry, we see brands restructure all the time. They're asking us how should they structure their organizations to work across e-commerce, to work across media, to work across marketing, to work across brand, all the different components. And now that Jorge and I are very connected, that we're seeing what works and what doesn't to have that connectivity on the brand side all the way through to our conversations to really make them most effective to hit all the different KPIs.

 

Peter Crosby (09:39):

We recently had a guest on the podcast, Casey from Ken View, and her title is now Commerce. So you could see her title sort of series went from E-commerce to omnichannel to now commerce. But it's again, continually driving towards that desire to really force the organization through KPIs, through a whole bunch of things to think in a unified way about how the consumer gets served and how the business grows. So I love seeing this across the industry. I think it's so important, particularly as we do get to an era where a lot of these things underneath these connections will be automated in a large way if we're going to continue to grow. And so having these human connections and the organization established so that the automation can move underneath something that's rational, I dunno. I think it's pretty cool.

 

Jenny Holleran (10:35):

It hasn't always been easy. I mean, Jorge alluded to it. There's been some bumps along the way, but I think that's the learning of it. Like I said, I didn't know much about what his team did. I can promise you he did not know much about the media side. And he's giving me a face. I know this isn't video, but from the media aspect of that. So I think the beauty of it is we both recognize where our expertise lies, and then we're challenging each other for that growth too. So I'm not trying to tell him what needs to be true necessarily in his world to drive success, and same, he's not doing the same on my side, but we're having that open conversations and maybe why we're making some of the decisions that we're making. And then we're able to go out to the brands in a much stronger way too, because we're united in what we're doing on the Kroger side.

 

Jorge Alfonso (11:24):

And I think it also helps with accountability too, across all three sides and holding ourselves accountable within Kroger's four walls, but also from the CPG side of the equation too. If we're going to come together and align on the strategy and a vision for executing that strategy, how do we make sure that all three legs of that stool are holding up under the bargain to make sure that we hit whatever the KPIs that we align up from the onset.

 

Peter Crosby (11:51):

So Lauren continually me that she's been in Cannes with Jenny. With Jenny,

 

Lauren Livak Gilbert (11:58):

We were together. We were sweating together. We were sweating together. Yeah.

 

Peter Crosby (12:06):

Jorge, did they allow you to go to Canne or No, they don't allow.

 

Jenny Holleran (12:10):

I cut him out of the list. They

 

Jorge Alfonso (12:12):

Don't want me there. There's a lot of reasons why

 

Peter Crosby (12:14):

You don't. So the silo went back up.

 

Jorge Alfonso (12:16):

Yeah, for the best though, Peter, to be

 

Peter Crosby (12:20):

Honest, one's let loose in 120 degree heat, who knows what's going to happen.

 

Jorge Alfonso (12:26):

You don't know what, I'll sign us up for anything and everything that no way Jenny and Kroger will be able to cash. So yeah, for the best.

 

Peter Crosby (12:35):

So Jenny, I was just thinking though about those conversations that I'm sure you had at can sadly without Jorge, but you were able to bring that knowledge of it, I would imagine, into those conversations. How did that go? Did you find that event was meaningful when those conversations were valuable?

 

Jenny Holleran (12:54):

Oh my gosh, so much so because we talk a lot about the future of e-commerce in general. How are customers going to be shopping in the future compared to how they're shopping today? What is that brand experience that we're helping create for them? So we see it a lot today, but also Kon was very focused on how are we doing that in the future. An example I have of our connectivity that continues to drive forward is I was in a conversation with A CBG and they're like, my campaigns aren't performing my campaigns. We cut them dark and you're still growing or we're still growing, we're still driving everything at Kroger. And I quickly got on the phone with Georgie's, like yeah, we did a ton of work on the backend on our side to drive efficiencies on the site to drive an increase in add to carts, all the different metrics from an e-commerce standpoint, totally separate of my team. So then you think of the build of what my team can do from an advertising standpoint and driving that demand, and as he's creating all these changes to capture that demand, that's where the beauty really happens. So we are able to see that come through even in future forward conversations for can.

 

Lauren Livak Gilbert (14:06):

I think the beauty of Can is it's such an interesting conference. It's like no other it its own category, but you have the creatives, you have the brands, you have the retailers, you have the retail media, parts of the retailers, you have the agencies and everybody's there having a conversation of how they need to work together to match what the future of commerce looks like. So I had the privilege of chatting with Jenny and team and interviewing some folks in the Kroger villa and speaking with some of the brands and stuff there. And it was really interesting the conversations we were having because it was from measuring to make sure you're being successful, making sure you have the right content and the right experiences. And also there was a big focus on in-store and bringing digital in-store, which I really, really liked because in-store is still such a critical element. We work in the digital shelf world, but that is across multiple different areas and it's being pulled into that in-store experience. And that was a big theme that I heard out of Can I don't know about you, Jenny, but that came through

 

Jenny Holleran (15:12):

A

 

Lauren Livak Gilbert (15:12):

Lot.

 

Jenny Holleran (15:13):

Yeah, I love that because we're obviously talking digital shelf, which is I would say the core of a lot of what Jorge and I talk about. But even with the announcement we had with Barrows and the digital screens in our stores, Jorge and I are still talking that through, right? If we're going to have a CPG on those screens in store, what is that thread through all the way to the e-commerce experience to make sure that we're driving that connectivity? Because we know most of our customers are shopping both of those. They're very omni focused. We even have a lot that are going online to look at our site, look at our products, and then go complete that purchase in store too. So having that connection across from in-store, which is, as you've heard me say, prime for disruption, allowing that to come through where we already have so much success in e-comm is really exciting for the next couple years.

 

Peter Crosby (16:00):

Well, don't think you're going to get out of this conversation by somehow telling me about the Kroger villa

 

Jenny Holleran (16:07):

Again, it was hot, it was sweaty.

 

Peter Crosby (16:10):

I'm just picturing this gorgeous mansion where you were having, I mean

 

Lauren Livak Gilbert (16:14):

There was a beautiful porch overlooking the palate, but it was

 

Jenny Holleran (16:18):

The sun. I was joking with someone actually of we need a behind the scenes of what these meetings, what really takes place. And one of my favorite things, like Lauren was saying, it is an event like no other. When you're sitting there and it's a hundred degrees and you're all just dripping sweat

 

Peter Crosby (16:34):

And

 

Jenny Holleran (16:35):

Trying to survive your, I don't know, 30 40th meeting of the week. It's a very different conversation than when you're just in a conference room in the fresh air conditioning and just thinking about your day to day. It just kind of takes down literally those walls and allows you to have a different conversation, respond

 

Peter Crosby (16:57):

In a different way. Oh my God, you're way, yes. Yuck. What's French for? Yuck. So before we move on, I would like to dig into, once brands experience the two of you approaching this in a unified way, how does that change their response? How does it change how they think about it, the people maybe they bring into the room? Yeah, I'd love to just know a little bit more about that. And Jorge, why don't I start with you?

 

Jorge Alfonso (17:30):

Yeah, I have a lot of thoughts on this one. I think I will go back to what I shared earlier about the accountability aspect. If they realize that Jenny and I are going to be on the same call and discussing what is the end-to-end strategy to bring a B, C tactic to life, they better come with a lot of the details and information of how that's going to be. And you'll have not only myself making sure that we hit the KPIs from a top line sales penetration, all of the things, but Jenny's right there alongside to hold them accountable and hold ourselves accountable, I should say, on are we delivering the right media and activations and amplification plans to make sure that these aren't just lofty aspirations. There's a tactic and a plan to make sure that we can get and achieve those results. So I think it just brings a more holistic conversation end to end, whereas I may have a more operational mindset going into a meeting of like, okay, what the when and the where, and then Jenny kind of brings all of those. Yeah, she takes all the credit, makes the pretty pictures. Exactly. Yep. Yeah. And makes it look good. Yeah, that's what we joke about is my job. I do all of the hard work and behind the scenes stuff, sweat and manual labor, and then Jenny's just taking all the credit with beautiful.

 

Jenny Holleran (19:03):

Yeah, I always joke that Jorge is my work brother, so I'm always just like we're fighting behind the scenes and then I'm coming through and I'm like, I did all this. I'm the favorite child. Good idea.

 

Peter Crosby (19:14):

If that were really true, you would not be on a podcast together. You would be,

 

Jenny Holleran (19:18):

Yeah, we've already connected today. We were probably already hashing out our latest battle over something. Of

 

Peter Crosby (19:25):

Course, that's what keeps it interesting. And

 

(19:28):

Jorge, the merchandising in this era is becoming even so much more vital to the consumer in a world where the merchandising that they encounter may not even be on Kroger's site, and it might be found in a conversational chat with their open AI or whatever that might be. And I'm wondering if that era that's approaching or is already here, I don't know what state it's in right now, but if that's on your mind, as you think about will merchandising evolve to suit that or is that merchandising is merchandising and then it's just how it's accessed or used or something like that?

 

Jorge Alfonso (20:15):

Yeah, I think it's a good question and one that we're in the process of really thinking and evaluating through of how it comes to life. At the end of the day, I think the core tenant and the core principle of there are specific, maybe not actions and tactics, but there are specific strategies that we as Kroger, whether that's at a category level or at an enterprise level, want to make sure that our customers walk away with knowing, believing, whether that's believing in our price points and how we go to market, whether that's a promotional entity, whether that's the stance that we take on fresh as a retailer. So all of those things are going to hold true. It's about building the technology to be able to connect the dots with here are the strategies and here is how we potentially can execute those strategies. So on the backend, people much smarter than me are going to figure out the levers to pull and the algorithms to build.

 

(21:14):

But at the end of the day, we have to make sure that those tactics and strategies that we believe in and that are at the core of how we show up to our customers day in and day out, get recognized and pulled into whatever it is. Whether that's personalization, sciences, to your point about conversational search, ai, meal inspiration, recipe inspiration. Again, at the end of the day, Kroger is going to stand for what we stand for. We just have to infuse that with what the customer's expectations of how they want to shop and how they want to be engaged with. And that's where it's eventually going to meet. We're already starting, it's already happening, but it's just going to go get closer over time.

 

Jenny Holleran (21:56):

This is where I come in and make things look good. So he's talking all about the technical marker, right? Right. Yeah. It's like the background and the technical and operational aspect of all of it where I sit, it's like, how are we, and you hit on this a little bit, Jorge, like meal planning, recipe inspiration. How are we still creating those brand experiences when you start to think about that different shopping behavior? So what is engaging to them on kroger.com or in store too with those digital screens? How are we building brands? When you think of retail media, historically it's always been very conversion based, right? We're starting lower funnel, but the reality is it has grown so much over the years. KPM specifically, we've been around almost eight years now. So the journey that we've been on from a retail media aspect from just driving conversion through search is now shifting into, we have a powerhouse of insights that can actually tell you brand preferences or demand spaces, think we talk a lot about protein or going into fiber. And so all of those different signals. So we're starting to talk to brands now about getting in front of them early to build even some r and d solutions and then create that through all the way to an experience on the site. So you do get out of just that transactional phase.

 

Jorge Alfonso (23:08):

And I think that the biggest selling point for me, and what gets me probably the most excited about Kroger in the future that we have is based off of our industry, the food industry and the way that our customers shop, it's a very cyclical, repetitive purchase. So you get a lot of information. Your customers are walking through your doors weekly, more times than that, quite frankly. Whereas you think about spaces like GM or fashion, it's less so you don't have as much information, data, and knowledge about your customers. So when you think about how we show up to our customers and how they engage, we and especially Kroger with the way that we have and way we're architect with our data and our structure, we have a right to win. We're going to understand our customers and we're going to be able to talk to them much better because of that baseline data and the way that they interact with us. So again, when you start, and when I start visioning for the next three to five years, it's going to be really, really exciting for a Kroger specifically, but any retailer that's kind of positioned in a similar way that we are to really show up to your customers in the most effective and efficient way as you can,

 

Peter Crosby (24:23):

And the art and science of it combined, I think is just so important and powerful when you're talking about making those emotional connections. And being a friend is probably the wrong word, but I'm just thinking of somebody that's helping them achieve what they want to achieve. I just think that art and science together, it's the only way to scale it, but then you still want it to feel personal. And I love the marriage of your two worlds sort of bringing that together,

 

Lauren Livak Gilbert (24:52):

Focus on experience, and that's what consumers want. So that makes sense. And Jorge, you talked about data. So let's talk about measurement a bit, but let's talk about measurement internally, right? Because you're on different teams, so you are measured internally differently, but I'm sure you also look at different metrics. So it would be interesting to hear from both of your perspectives how you think about measurement and metrics both internally and externally. And I don't know, Jenny, do you want to start with that one? I saw you nodding your head.

 

Jenny Holleran (25:20):

Yeah. Yeah, it is. We do have different metrics. It's funny, we talk about we're going after the same thing, we're going after the same thing. And really the way that I always, I've said this many times, but if a brand is winning, Kroger's winning, if I am able to drive sales of that particular product, then Kroger's winning at the same time. So my big focus is really working with those brands, understanding their strategies, and helping them grow in baskets so that ultimately gets into Jorge's world of what he cares about. And some of digital, he'll tell you all about digital penetration and e-comm growth and all of those metrics that he likes to send to me on a weekly basis. But

 

Peter Crosby (26:01):

The verbal eye roll, yeah,

 

Jorge Alfonso (26:06):

He'll know if I'm really just as a reminder, those are the metrics that, yeah. Well, just as a reminder too, Jenny, those metrics with quotation marks around it are the ones that we write checks against at the end of the day. So it might be a little more important than you let on.

 

Jenny Holleran (26:22):

Interesting. Gosh, this is one. See, this is where that whole brother sister battle.

 

Peter Crosby (26:26):

Yeah, something to think about, James.

 

Jenny Holleran (26:27):

Gosh, we made it so far. But really for me, really making sure those brand campaigns are successful, what is driving that? We're constantly talking about growing household penetration, talking about growing sales, talking about the incremental return that these brands are seeing so they understand their performance indicators that is driving their brand back at Kroger and beyond.

 

Lauren Livak Gilbert (26:52):

We'll give you the opportunity, Jorge.

 

Jorge Alfonso (26:57):

Exactly. No, actually I think Jenny did a phenomenal job of highlighting much of the key metrics that we have focused on. And again, combined focus, right? Household growth sales at a top line perspective, also looking at margin obviously. And with that a SP and basket size are critical, specifically for an e-commerce outlet where there is an additional cost that last mile to delivering to our customers. Jenny hit on it. Digital penetration is how we measure success against our four walls, where we have opportunity across brands. Even down to a UPC level, you would be surprised within a specific brand flavor to flavor or size to size, you can have digital penetration swings of anywhere to 10 to 15%. It's pretty crazy to just say that. So the team digs in and tries to identify where we have our biggest opportunities or where we have our biggest benefits.

 

(27:56):

We have brands, categories that are over 20, 25, 30% digital penetration. How do you double down on those and make sure that they're obviously resonating for your online consumer? How do you make sure that you're overdr those? And then on the inverse, we have brands that may be struggling. How do we work with those brands collectively, both Jenny and I and our teams to say, Hey, you're doing great within brick and mortar floor walls, but you have a huge opportunity when it comes to your online penetration. What do you need to do differently? What is missing from an operations component? Maybe from a tactics or promotion perspective, but also from a media side of the equation, you're just not showing up to customers. If they don't know you're on our website, if they're not populating within search, you're not going to win. So again, it sometimes is as simple as just talking through and working through with specific brands that we have or specific commodities categories that we have. But it also starts with understanding and having an alignment across both of our teams. Why we started by saying the strategic high level is critical to make sure that if Jenny's and I are going to go after something, you got to go after the same thing, same suppliers, same categories that we know we have an opportunity. And then from there we start to build and our teams build a lot of the strategies to bring it all to life at the end of the day.

 

Jenny Holleran (29:18):

One of the things that even came across my desk today from Jorge's team was specific to innovation. So we're not just talking about categories as a whole, but as you think about launching a new product, if you're a brand, you probably have a playbook on how you do that in store, but doing that through an e-commerce standpoint is different. And we have to think about that different. So how does Jorge think about merchandising that on site, making sure that it shows up properly through the personalized experience that our customers get when they go to kroger.com, but also how are you amplifying that in the right way through the media aspect of that or utilizing the insights to understand who you want to communicate with. So I think it's, we have these broad category goals, but then something drilling down to launching a new product or a line extension, we want to make sure that we're connected and being able to deliver what is that best in class launch plan to those brands.

 

Peter Crosby (30:13):

I love the focus and the attention on that, that whole array of what needs to happen to make it all work for the consumer and drive your growth. And I was wondering as we close, I wanted to ask you, so I once had a boss who prepared a document, which is how to work with Rob, and it's Rob Gonzalez and occasional co-host of this podcast, and he won't mind me throwing him under the bus, but I was wondering if you two were to prepare a document for your brand partners before your big meeting, what's the top three things you would kind of put on how to get the best out of this meeting, how to take advantage of this opportunity? I think for our listeners, I think it's helpful, particularly as we're moving into, or maybe you're already there, 2026 planning could be well underway. What would that list be besides have the right beverages and food for you? Just like a concert list for sure. That's your writer. I know.

 

Jenny Holleran (31:30):

I was like, I thought I was going to be like, what would my feedback be? How to work with Jorge. I'm like, wild.

 

Peter Crosby (31:37):

That's a separate podcast and I can't wait to record it.

 

Jorge Alfonso (31:42):

No comment. No comment.

 

Peter Crosby (31:44):

So what would

 

Jorge Alfonso (31:45):

That look like? I think a couple of different things for me, and I'll speak for me and Jenny, please speak for yourself if you don't want me speaking for you, for sure. But for me, I think what I need to hear and what I love to hear is two things. I always stress that focusing on the fundamentals is absolutely critical. I do not want to or even get into a conversation of what we should think about aspirationally and what does the three to five year plan look like if I don't have a confidence or we don't collectively have confidence in how are we showing up for the fundamentals for today? That means optimize search, that means best in class content. That means item availability across every single store, every single modality, every single division. And it sounds very simple. It's very complex. It's

 

Peter Crosby (32:42):

Really hard.

 

Jorge Alfonso (32:43):

It is. It is so caveat by saying it's not a simple conversation, but you have to have hypersensitivity and hyperfocus on the fundamentals. And then from there, it's okay, now that I have that kind of baseline, what is that long-term planning going to look like and what do we need to do? And it's a collective conversation. I don't expect CPGs to give me all the answers, nor they should have that expectation either. But what do we need to do? How do we challenge ourselves both on the Kroger side of the equation, but on the CPG side to make sure that we're breaking down barriers across the way to show up together? And you started here, Peter, so I'm going to just keep digging this direction, but we are a very solid organization even today, and we've done so much great work holistically combining from a media perspective as well as digital merchandising.

 

(33:42):

There are still silos across our organization, and we understand that a lot of those silos impact the way that we show up to our customers at an omnichannel way. So my team, I call 'em change makers for a reason because we drive change within our organization. Whether that's as simple as the way an item is set up, that doesn't bode well for how it shows up from a digital perspective all the way through the promotional planning or how the planogram sets up within a store. If you don't have enough shelf space for a specific item that resonates highly on digital, you have all of these things. So anyway, what I mean to say by all this is saying we have to challenge ourselves and Kroger as well as the CPG to show up differently. What's going to work today in driving the business isn't going to work tomorrow. So what is that two year, that three year, that five-year plan, and what are those big things, big rocks that we have to be aspirational to try to change within both organizations to make sure that we show to our customers in the best way possible?

 

Jenny Holleran (34:47):

Yeah, I love that. I always say the same. You have to get it right on the foundation with Georgia's side for my stuff to be impactful. If we're driving, you could have the most beautiful media plan, but if then they get to this site and it's not available or the content isn't right, then we've just missed the boat completely. So we do always say that, start with the foundation. And then again, I like to make sure everyone has this as a takeaway. I come in and make it look good. And so that is

 

Lauren Livak Gilbert (35:20):

The most important takeaway. The

 

Jenny Holleran (35:21):

Most important takeaway. Sorry,

 

Lauren Livak Gilbert (35:23):

Jorge. Yeah.

 

Jenny Holleran (35:24):

So get that foundation, right, and then when it's really running that media plan, I'm like, what are we trying to accomplish here? What is our goal? And are we all aligning on this plan should accomplish that goal? So often someone will come in and they're like, I want to increase sales by X percent or grow my digital penetration by X percent, and here is my single channel program, and it's really, and you look at their size of business and you're like, that won't actually do anything. So having that honest conversation. Then to Jorge's point, once we have all of that, what is that longer term plan? This is, as we even said at the very beginning, Peter, so quickly evolving, this industry is so fast paced, so we cannot lose sight of the future. But as we're focusing on the future, we want those people that want to partner with us. Who are those brands that want to come in, come with ideas. We have ideas too. Let's roll up our sleeves and build something together. Rather than just saying, I expect Kroger to do X, or you all to partner and build in this way. How are we really showing up collectively to be successful on both sides?

 

Jorge Alfonso (36:35):

I just thought of one example that I think kind of hits Jenny and my stance and our points home is this happened last week. A CPG came to us and asked, or basically said, this program was not as successful as we expected it to be for a, B, C reasons. The efficiency wasn't there, the top line sales weren't there. And then once we took a look at, okay, what happened didn't perform, items weren't unavailable, we didn't have ample stock on the items, the content was poor. So to Jenny's point, all for N, you have to make sure that you're firing on both sides of the cylinder and that we're having one holistic conversation of this is the end-to-end plan of how my media strategy, my digital strategy, is going to come to life.

 

Peter Crosby (37:27):

And that's what I think is so interesting. Lauren's going to be coming out with a org design for the future paper. That's really cool. And I will murder it, Lauren, so you should probably say it, but I think the structure that you're recommending, if I can give away the headline of a chief growth officer kind of structure,

 

Lauren Livak Gilbert (37:51):

Joint leadership, yeah.

 

Peter Crosby (37:51):

Yes. Is I think it's exactly what you're asking for, that these things cannot be separated any longer. And Lauren, I'll let you close out on that because you actually wrote it.

 

Lauren Livak Gilbert (38:08):

To your point, Peter, that was one of the key tenets of what an org the future looks like. You just have to have joint leadership. So sales and marketing can't be working towards different goals, reporting to different leaders and not talking to each other. And I think that goes across the board brand retailer side. If you're all measured across the same thing and you have the same leader who has visibility along the entire consumer journey, not just siloed into sales or marketing, then you have a better ability to do exactly what you described, Jorge, where you wouldn't have that missing piece of poor content because you would all be working together doing that campaign collectively with the retail media and the PDP together. So that's a really key piece, having joint leadership and then having accountability that's shared across the organization because we're humans. And if you're not being measured against it, why would you do it if to it? Why would you work through that? You know what I mean? So I think it

 

Peter Crosby (39:08):

Also, so the good of humanity, Lauren,

 

Lauren Livak Gilbert (39:10):

Right? Fair. I mean, there's some people for sure, but not everybody. So it does come back to human nature and just thinking about change and how to keep people accountable. But yeah, teaser for the report. It's coming out. It's coming out soon. So

 

Jorge Alfonso (39:25):

That's great. So my takeaway is that Jenny needs to report to me at some

 

Lauren Livak Gilbert (39:28):

Point. I was going to say the opposite. Come on.

 

Peter Crosby (39:32):

Switch back and forth,

 

Lauren Livak Gilbert (39:34):

Right? Yeah. Every other day.

 

Peter Crosby (39:36):

Yes. Thank you for this. Thanks. Giving family table of a podcast that has been delightful. Really to both of you. I can't tell you one, just how honored we are to have Kroger on our podcast. You guys are an amazing organization. But also to have both of you here and represent that collaboration is really a sea change in an industry that I think we've all been in for a little bit. So it's exciting to see because I think it's necessary to, as we were talking about, get it to the next stage of growth and make it more fun even. So thank you so much for coming on

 

Jenny Holleran (40:16):

Us. Thank you, journey. Thanks for having us. We're excited. It's been a journey, but it's a lot of fun.

 

Jorge Alfonso (40:23):

It has been a lot of fun. I'm just glad I got what I needed out of this. I got to get myself to cans at some point, and Jenny's got to report to me. Second

 

Peter Crosby (40:33):

Clarity, that'll be the title of episode. Jorge gets what he wants.

 

Lauren Livak Gilbert (40:40):

Love it. And stay tuned for the standup with Jenny and Jorge and or debate.

 

Peter Crosby (40:46):

Thank you so much.

 

Lauren Livak Gilbert (40:47):

Thank you both. Thank you.

 

Jorge Alfonso (40:48):

Thank you.

 

Peter Crosby (40:49):

Thanks again to Jenny and Jorge for sharing their methods and madness for growth with us. If you're anxious to be the first to get Lauren's upcoming org research, make sure you're a DSI member by signing up@digitalshelfinstitute.org. Thanks for being part of our community.