What Matters When it Comes to Alexa for Shopping, with Todd Hassenfelt, Chief Decision officer, firstmovr

Transcript

Our transcripts are generated by AI. Please excuse any typos and if you have any specific questions please email info@digitalshelfinstitute.org.

Lauren Livak Gilbert (00:00):

Welcome to Unpacking the Digital Shelf, where industry leaders share insights, strategies, and stories to help brands win in the ever-changing world of commerce. Hi, everyone. Lauren Livak Gilbert here from the Digital Shelf Institute, joined by my guest co-host, Jamie Clapper, while Peter Crosby is on sabbatical. Today, we're joined by Todd Hassenfelt, chief decision officer at firstmovr. Todd joins us to unpack the major shifts happening with Alexa for shopping on Amazon and what it really means for CPG brands competing on the agentic shelf. He shares why brands can't just buy their way to the top anymore, how tools like Amazon interests and branded conversations are changing consumer discovery, and why fast content optimization and weekly FAQ updates are becoming a brand's ultimate competitive edge. Welcome back to the podcast, Todd. How's it going?

 

Todd Hassenfelt (01:06):

I am so excited to be here, and I'm excited to be with you, Lauren, but also Jamie, who has an amazing podcast of herself that I'm sure we're going to self-promote in the show notes or whatever. But a lot of things going on, and let's see what we can do to help the industry.

 

Lauren Livak Gilbert (01:23):

Yeah, Peter's on sabbatical, so my co-host today is Jamie Clapper.

 

Jamie Clapper (01:27):

Yay. Yay. Peter, let me step in and support Lauren and Todd here. So I'm excited to be here and joining this side of Unpacking the Digital Shelf.

 

Lauren Livak Gilbert (01:38):

We're so excited to have you. And Todd, it looks like you're in a bit of a different color today. Do I see some orange?

 

Todd Hassenfelt (01:47):

You do. I am known or notorious, however you want to frame it. I do support where I work and I wear a lot of branded gear and many of those brands have their colors. So yeah, I'm in orange today. The orange and blue, which is firstmovr. So the company that Chris Perry and Oscar Kasowski started back almost six years ago, over six years ago now, really upskilling for a change. Change is hard. Let's try to change that. Let's change that. So I'm excited. I started there in August as their chief decision officer because I think as we all know, there's a lot of information, a lot of data, a lot of things going on, but not sometimes, a lot of the times people have to make decisions. They have to make a decision on what they're seeing, what they're not seeing, and conflicting views.

 

(02:37):

And so I'm really excited to be wearing the orange now. I got a little logo, branded gear and all that too as well. But todd@firstmover.com, hello@firstmover.com for all of us, excited to be part of that team.

 

Lauren Livak Gilbert (02:53):

And I

 

Jamie Clapper (02:54):

Love the title. I feel like that's what my husband calls me. Chief decision officer.

 

Todd Hassenfelt (03:02):

I don't have a patent on it. You can take it. You can use it as well. I love it.

 

Lauren Livak Gilbert (03:08):

And speaking of decisions, Todd, you spend a lot of time helping brands make decisions on what they should be doing around AI, and you dig in a lot around Alexa for shopping on Amazon. And honestly, it's a little bit of a black box right now, but you have a lot of perspectives. There's been a lot of announcements. Let's start with why should brands care about Alexa for shopping previously Rufus?

 

Todd Hassenfelt (03:33):

Yes. As everything in our industry now, we always have to rename it before we figure things out. But yeah, so why brands should care? First of all, it's because it's where consumers are, will be going and will be influenced with their decisions. If we go off of what Amazon says, take it with a grain of salt, they will say, and they have said, 300 million people have used it and it's influenced a lot of dollars. Now, I wouldn't get hung up on the numbers. This is kind of like digitally influenced sales that we've never been able to prove, but we all know that are happening. But this is where consumers on one of your biggest online channels, maybe depending on your category, your biggest channel or customer overall, are being influenced in multiple ways by Alexa for shopping. And I think I remember, Lauren, you and I are on the PDP NCAPS Awards, trying to figure out which brands are doing the best with their content there.

 

(04:32):

And we started this back in January of 2025, who is Rufus ready? And I think at that time it was looked at, what are you doing? Why are you looking at this? But it was so important of how back then Rufus, now Alexa for Shopping, looks at reviews a lot closer and faster than humans can and really either validates or invalidates what brands are saying on there, how it can provide price alerts, how it can provide information. And I've talked about there's a temptation, conversion diversion, this temptation that Alexa for shopping provides consumers. So I know you guys have talked a lot about and others have talked about how many facings you get or how many products or brands are shown on a physical shelf to the digital shelf to now the AI shelf. You know how many it takes for someone to switch? One and just one.

 

(05:31):

And that's what Alexa for shopping can do. It can take a very loyal consumer, it can take a potential new to brand consumer and switch them right on that product detail pace. So why brands should care? One other thing I would say is you can't pay your way to the top on these. And I know someone's going to say, "Well, they have sponsored AI prompts now and you do, but in reality, your content is what matters and your product reputation, your product experience that people have done are really factoring into this. And so brands have to look at this from a much different angle than we can just buy our way to the top."

 

Jamie Clapper (06:13):

Absolutely. Makes complete sense. And you mentioned 300 million people have used it. From a consumer experience perspective, are shoppers actually using Alexa? Do they know they are using it and what exactly are they using it for?

 

Todd Hassenfelt (06:29):

So do they know they're using it all the time? I think there's still, while it's gotten better, there's still a lot of consumers that don't know if they're buying 1P or 3P or from a marketplace and all that. They just know they bought on Amazon. Similar here, I think where people, whether they can identify that they've been using AI or Alexa maybe isn't as important because what they do gravitate towards in life is something, a tool, a person, in this case AI, that helps them save money, save time or feel smarter about their decisions. And so I bet there's a lot of people, not only based on the numbers that we've been given that people are using it, and I think we all know from our experiences with brands and others that people are using it, but even those that would say, "I don't like AI," they've actually used it because there's so many different spots on Amazon that you can.

 

(07:23):

So it's not just clicking into Alexa, let's say, and having the chat. Maybe you did read the summary of reviews and like, "Wow, this is nice. I got a whole summary here and I can now sort it by this." Maybe you've used the AI lens where you took a picture of something and found a product. Maybe you did see that price alert and you didn't know that was AI, but now it kind of walked you through this of what that looks like. So I think are people using it? Yes. And this is where that creep factor comes into play. I'll give you one example I found when Rufus did switch to Alexa for shopping, and they did, they were very open that they were connecting more parts of the Amazon ecosystem, but there was a couple things on my Alexa calendar. We have a big Echo Show kind of thing that helped coordinate the family, everything going on.

 

(08:16):

My kids play travel basketball and that alone is a scheduling nightmare. But anyways, a couple things I had put on there, a couple family members that were visiting, we put their time that they were coming in and some golf lessons, and we haven't bought anything online from a golf perspective. All of a sudden that showed up in my Amazon About You profile. And if you don't know about that, you should go check that out as well, both as a brand, as a consumer, but in my About You profile now, which is what Amazon looks at my tendencies and what I like to buy and what price points I like, all these different things, all these different categories, those two items were in there, the family members' names, we've never sent them anything, never mentioned them elsewhere, typed their names and whatever, and then stuff about golf lessons for my boys.

 

(09:05):

And it was like, whoa, okay, this is really getting connected. So that's a blessing and a curse, but this whole ecosystem I think is with so many different spots to use it. Amazon Interest as well, I'll mention as one other one. If you are a brand and you're not thinking about the Amazon Interest piece, that's probably a huge miss from an opportunity to leverage, we'll call it free exposure on the Amazon site.

 

Lauren Livak Gilbert (09:39):

And say more about that because I don't think a lot of people know what that is, Todd.

 

Todd Hassenfelt (09:42):

Yeah, so Interest is just literally, you can go... There's a section, if you go look at not even just the about you profile, but just where you go find your orders, there'll be a portion of Interest where you can ask Alexa, "Hey, take me to Amazon Interest." And what you can do is put in, literally as it sounds, what interests you, what would you want to know more about? So that could be about a brand, which you can do. I've tested this for a long time. You can put brands in specifically, you can put in basketball training gear, kind of like a category. You could put in, I want some GLP-1 food products. I want new releases in skincare. Whatever your interests are, try to put it in. And then what happens is it becomes almost an automatic personalized feed to you and you will get however you set it up, and the default is this, you will get emails, you'll get alerts on your Amazon app, and it will start showing up right on the front page.

 

(10:46):

And so I'll just say one, not getting paid by this brand or anything, but I put a brand in there that I haven't bought in the past, so sorry, but Magic Spoon cereal, and I put that in a while ago just to see how often it would pop up in different spots within my Amazon ecosystem because I know I would remember, oh, Magic Spoon, cool name, love it. I have to tell you, that is showing up so many places, the front page in the middle portion like, "Oh, based on your interest, you may like this." I've gotten the new products. Recently there was kind of like, "Hey, Alexa can now with their alerts, you can get new items sent to you." That's been going on for a while. Amazon Interest does this already and it shows up in that about you that I mentioned because it'll populate there.

 

(11:41):

But I wear size 15 shoes. I've used it for this because it has been wonderful. I've bought so many shoes because of it, unfortunately, but this

 

Lauren Livak Gilbert (11:50):

Interest - Or fortunately.

 

Todd Hassenfelt (11:52):

Well, yeah. But the interest piece just shows up in so many different parts of my Amazon ecosystem in a very helpful way for the most part. I don't feel overwhelmed necessarily. So as a consumer, it's great and I can adjust it and it's evolved. So at first you put in your own interest. How it's evolved over the past, let's say year is one, it will suggest other interests for you now and saying, "Hey, since you like this, you may like this as well, yes or no," and add it to your list of interest. And then within now your interest as you're scrolling through products, and let's say every day you get some new products or whatever it may be, or every few days depending on what kind of categories and brands you're putting in there. But at the end of the list, not every time, but frequently, it'll kind of say, "Do you want to add this too?" And there's four to six boxes of ways to enhance your interest experience as well.

 

(12:53):

So again, both from consumer, from a helpful standpoint as a brand, either as a competitive kind of check, as seeing what they're saying about your brand, it's really interesting. And listen, it's not 100% perfect as we shouldn't do with AI. Sometimes you'll get a new product launch and it has 20,000 reviews. It's because I'm assuming it's got unvariated or untwisted from a different one or something changed just enough to trigger it. But overall, yes, a lot of new product discovery.

 

Jamie Clapper (13:23):

So is there a ranking to the interest? If you are putting in your top five to six, and then you mentioned your calendar, and we always say our phones are listening, is there a level to the order of things that are popping up or is it random?

 

Todd Hassenfelt (13:40):

No, great question on is it random how it shows up? I would say this, that the order that I see within the Amazon interest page when I'm looking at it is pretty much the last ones I've added are the first ones that I see, and then I scroll across and I can go see the original ones that I put in when I first found this. From a experience on Amazon, and especially if you're thinking about that front page or front of the app type of experience and visibility, that portion, at least from what I can see, is random based on when there is something to show. So whether that's new items, something's back in stock, even from a better price perspective, that shows up. So in all the other placements I would say within, or when it is mentioned, if I'm chatting with Alexa for shopping, it will reference, "Hey, in your interest, you like Lego toys, which is for my boys, and so you may like this." So it's coming in all these different spots.

 

(14:47):

So to say there's a rhyme or reason, I can't identify it necessarily other than last in first viewable, but everywhere else, it seems to be based on when there's something to say, which is it's not just things to show it. And I have, gosh, I probably should count how many I actually have, but probably have over 20, 25 of these. It's not like my front page is just all overloaded with all 25 of them, let's say, every day. It's when it matters or at least when it's relevant to me, I would say.

 

Lauren Livak Gilbert (15:20):

And Todd, if consumers are using Alexa for shopping to find products, I know there's actually a discrepancy with a lot of times the top products on Alexa for shopping are not the same as the top products on traditional search. So can you talk about that a bit and also talk about how brands interpret those differences?

 

Todd Hassenfelt (15:42):

Yeah, I mean, I think we have had a version of this in a couple different spots, the line about the top organic products are not necessarily the top products in this case being recommended by AI. Well, isn't that paid versus organic in a lot of ways? A lot of times brands have paid for products that have not earned their way to organic top rankings, but they've paid their way to the top. And let's take this to the physical store too. You could argue that a lot of times there's probably some products that maybe haven't necessarily earned their space, but they've been paid for to get on the shelf or get on an end cap or a shipper. So I guess this is a different, it's AI, so it can be an element there. But I would say for brands now looking at this from, okay, now AI has a recommendation that may not match the organic or top sellers per se.

 

(16:44):

Well, okay, so brands, you have to compete now and not get complacent. Maybe you've had that top spot for a long time and it just either out of habit or the placement or the payment, you've had it. But now the consumer can go ask questions, they can ask for... There's a couple different things. Think about even brand loyal customers, let's say. You can ask Alexa, which I do, I actually have a rule set up where, hey, every quarter assess the products in my subscribe and save. Now as a brand you're like, love it, subscribe and save, loyal customer. But that assessment, I've had two of them through now quarterly, is pretty interesting on how it does tier. You're paying too much for this product, you could shift down and Alexa is getting more, which it hadn't been in the past, more favorable to its own brands, to Amazon brands.

 

(17:42):

These products have other brand names that are a better cost and you're not losing much in the quality. And then it gives you a list of, hey, either based on, guess what, your interest or the price point or the quality, there is not really a trade-down option. So I think this is going to be part of the examples is, okay, brands, you can't just assume and get complacent that loyal customers are going to stay that way, but also this is a great opportunity no matter your size.

 

(18:14):

If you feel you're losing on one side, how can you come now and really do these things that we've talked about for a while? How can you look at your competitors, let's say negative reviews? And oh, by the way, because of Alexa, it's easier to assess these, but look at the negative reviews and adjust your content or your messaging to try to capture new consumers that way. The other part I would say is your innovation team, be working with them, help them out, but they better be speeding up the process to capture consumer sentiment, competitor depth. And what I mean by competitor depth is not just looking at the competitors inside the physical store and/or only just on Amazon. You may have to go deeper and look at D2C sites, look at other marketplaces, who are the competitors that are actually gaining share and why?

 

(19:09):

So you can now take that consumer sentiment and competitor depth and speed up or enhance your stage gate processes for more quality products. So I think that innovation team, because end of the day, that experience, what the product does for a consumer is really important and you can't get complacent as a brand if you're the number one spot right now.

 

Lauren Livak Gilbert (19:35):

And Todd, from a content perspective, when we think about the Agentic Shelf and Alexa for shopping and the importance of that, what would you suggest brands prioritize from a content perspective? It's not a full overhaul of everything because the fundamentals of the digital shelf fuel the Agentic Shelf, but what would you suggest are the top two, three things to focus on?

 

Todd Hassenfelt (19:57):

Yeah. Lauren, I'm a pretty tall guy, right? I'm 6'8", and so that surprises some people when they see me in person, "Oh my goodness, I didn't know." So I leveraged that height. I was lucky enough to be a walk-on basketball player in Wisconsin Green Bay and Coach Dick Bennett. And he talked about we just had to play as a basketball team the Green Bay way. It didn't matter if we were playing one of the best teams at the time, Kentucky, or if we're playing a lesser opponent. Our way of playing was the key, and we had to master that through repetition and discipline. Okay, so how's that relate to your content question? I would say a similar mindset does have to be implemented in CPGs is I would spend less time worrying about the scorecards or the trackers of things like quantitative digital shelf metrics or share of recommendation tracking because you should be focusing more time on improving the speed of your content optimizations than the approvals, than getting them onto all the retailer websites, and then also pruning old content and things that you don't need on there.

 

(21:20):

All those processes, you need to figure out how to speed those up. And just one reason, which is something that's coming out that was announced at Amazon Unboxed and it'll be coming out in January, is Amazon launched branded conversations, or at least it'll be going live here in January. And what are branded conversations? These are different than sponsored ad placements like in the prompts or in the answers, but it'll really say what branded conversations will do is it's giving the brands, the advertisers in this case, a direct way to influence what its AI shopping assistant says about their brands. So that line on a PowerPoint slide is going to be pretty exciting, but it's going to be coming off of, it says the products need to address different consumer needs and which items work together in routines and bundles in all these different areas, but that the advertisers or the brands can edit, they're calling this a brief because this is part of the advertising piece, but throughout the campaign and will receive reporting that includes sample conversations showing how Alexa discusses the brand, Amazon will supposedly provide prompt level clicks, conversions, and return on ad spend.

 

(22:43):

We don't have to worry about the ROAS portion. What is interesting about this is this all sounds like what brands want, is like, give me more information on what the consumer is saying, but it will be interesting to see how fast... We're going to have less than a quarter here to get this going if it's launching in January, but how fast can brands now iterate, adjust to different questions and adjust to different ways of answering? And will those content pieces they provide, is it going to be relevant to what consumers want or is it going to be the, I don't like the phrase, but is it going to be like brand speak? So I think that's one thing is how do you speed up your process? But the reason I'm like, "Hey, don't go after share of recommendations as much, at least don't hold it to such a high level." My kids are older than this now, but I remember when they were younger, you used to try playing any game with them.

 

(23:43):

They change the rules all the time. They're just changing the rules that you're trying to keep up as an adult. What are we doing here? The kids is like the AI models. They're changing so fast that that scoreboard or that tracker may be comforting to see that, oh, we're number one or we're number two, but the things are changing so fast. There's so much personalization in this that you may be irrelevant literally six weeks later from when you saw it. So I would say, how do you overcome this besides just the speed? Teach the consumer how to use AI. We've talked about a lot of different advantage, free advertising we'll call it, or free spaces. How can you help the consumer who's probably themselves? They don't know if they're using AI, am I using it? How am I using it? Am I maximizing it? Teach them all these different ways, and that could be very beneficial.

 

(24:37):

The last one I'll say, and Lauren, I know we've talked about is FAQs. I think FAQs fits into any kind of process that you're doing. It allows the organization to figure out where do we not have great answers for things? What are questions we haven't thought of? And those can be updated literally weekly if you get your process going, which helps AI tools as well. So I would say the speed of content optimization approvals, et cetera, making sure that you get your FAQs and teaching consumers on how to use the AI, those things are like that Green Bay way. If you do those fundamentals, your content will continue to get better, your connection with the consumer will get better, and then no matter how the models, the AI or how consumers change things, you will have a better chance of being in front of them and being recommended.

 

Jamie Clapper (25:37):

Yeah, and that's all great conversation and what you're sharing, Todd, and it is. It's a bit of a moving target with AI. And so we've talked about content, Amazon interest, not being complacent. What also we talked about, innovation, speed. From an organizational standpoint, what does this mean for how brands structure themselves and who is responsible for this strategy? I feel like that's always a question that organizations have. It can be a little bit of a hot potato. So what's your recommendation on who's responsible?

 

Todd Hassenfelt (26:10):

Yeah. Ultimately, organizations have to make the decision what's best for them. It's kind of like families. Yeah, one way of family doing thing is not good for the other and vice versa. But when you think about this, okay, which way is best for us? The common thing is to say everyone has to embrace AI, and yes, that is true. But if everyone's embracing it in their own way within, let's just say within one company, then you may get the separation or you may get that someone's not actually leading it, and so the pace may not be as fast. So I would say one is every department has to have AI embedded in what they're doing based on how not just to do it, not the token maxing thing or not just to check something off or using AI is not just rewriting your emails, but what problems are you trying to solve?

 

(27:08):

And those will be specific to your departments. But I really do think you need to have a team leading the charge of trying to connect all the departments in a way that is either accelerating them, sharing and soliciting the best practices and needs, as well as evaluating different tools. So then if a department is saying, "I need help with this, my current tool is not working for me," that a different one could be tried. And then how do you connect the data? How do you best try to make sure there's not overlap, but also not gaps? And so you got to be careful, where does that team sit? Well, for some companies, it may be a global team, if you're a startup, it may be a couple people, even if you're a large conglomerate, maybe it's not global necessarily, maybe it's geographical in setting, but you have to have an accountability person or team depending on the size of your company that is leading the charge and connecting teams and accelerating the learning.

 

(28:20):

But whoever that is or whatever team that is, I say there has to be a brick wall of support from the C-suite. And why I use the analogy of a brick wall, there's going to be challenges, there's going to be time constraints, there's going to be a lot of pushback. That C-suite support has to be real and it has to stay as a brick wall when people say, "I don't want to do this. I don't have time to do it. I don't have budget to do it." And not that it's not like a stick that you're telling people they have to, but that C-suite support is so critical. So I'll give the answer, everyone has to be involved, but what works best for your organization? Look at other ways you've changed things and maybe apply that precedent, not guaranteeing it's going to work, but I don't think there's one way of doing this necessarily.

 

Lauren Livak Gilbert (29:11):

And not one person owns the agentic shelf. I a hundred percent agree with that. It has to be everybody similarly to how everybody needs to own e-commerce. So Todd, if we could have a crystal ball here, and I know predicting the future in this space is very, very challenging, but what do you think comes next for Alexa for shopping and where should brands be spending their time? Because I know there's a lot of, "Hey, we're figuring this out, so we don't want to change everything and we don't know when things are going to change." So what is your advice to brands?

 

Todd Hassenfelt (29:44):

Yeah, I'll go because as easy as it sounds, it's not happening enough. I'm going to go back to the FAQs and how do you get... And this is a way to get every department involved too. Every department could write FAQs, I hope, on what the brand means or what they should be doing or what a consumer may ask. You can go to your consumer affairs team, you should always be going to consumer affairs teams and seeing what are consumers saying, if you have sentiment tools. And so I would say the crystal ball is FAQ. And I think while it was a little bit controversial, but the Time Magazine, in essence, their online version recently had the controversy of using FAQs on markdown sites, which means it's just the words, just a very bare boned, but to attract AI advertising dollars. They're trying to do it.

 

(30:48):

So obviously a lot of people were upset with gaming the system, but the tool that they used or the method was FAQs. They felt that was the best way to attract an AI agent, an LM or an assistant looking for information. So I would say if you are a brand and you're looking ahead here, what's something... And yes, predictions always go wrong, so I'm sure this will come back to bite me at some point, but -

 

Lauren Livak Gilbert (31:14):

We're going to hold you to it, Todd.

 

Todd Hassenfelt (31:16):

I know. I have had other ones go right and go okay, but I'm going to say if you can get your FAQs process to a point where you are iterating every week, you have questions and answers that are relevant to your consumers that help with guarding against the weaknesses that you may have, whether it's through negative reviews or what others may be saying about you or what you're seeing from assistants. But if you can get this going and find ways of, okay, where do I put these? How many spots make sense? The FAQs, I don't know, is it the old blood type, whichever one is kind of the universal donor. These can go in so many different spots and no matter how things are changing, you could repurpose them, you can place them. And so I would say if you've spent more time tracking your share of recommendations and not as much time figuring out how to create, optimize, iterate, and place FAQs, that's going to be one of the differences between we'll call it winners and non-winners in this space.

 

(32:30):

And listen, the other part of FAQs would be teach consumers how to do this. And we're talking about a lot of the stuff today on Amazon to get that free space. I still have from over five years ago with the Voice Alexa recommended products back then, just add this to my list. It is still in my shopping cart. It is still there from five years ago. They had reminders set up, I think over two years ago. I still get those reminders. These are all kind of free, literally reminders to use the word, but these are free things that brands could get in front, just like we think about physical shelf space or memory, no matter where you are on that spectrum. FAQs and teaching people how to use AI would be a great spot to say, "Hey, I think we're going to win in the future as best you can predict it."

 

Lauren Livak Gilbert (33:28):

I love it, Todd. Education, change in communication, just bringing your entire organization along the journey is so, so important. And we're all figuring this out together and you have the DSI, you have firstmovr, you have so many different resources that can help you do that. So Todd, if people want to get in touch with you, what is the best way to do it? I know you gave your email in the beginning, but you want to close us out with that?

 

Todd Hassenfelt (33:53):

Yeah, so again, Todd at firstmovr, and just so you know, firstmovr is intentionally spelled without an E because e-commerce isn't... We took the E out of it, it's just commerce. So Todd at FirstMover. I also have a Substack and it's called What Mae You Decide That it's a great spot to go where more longer form things and more in-depth looking at how the industry is going. I guess LinkedIn is still a thing so far, but I would encourage either email or Substack would be great spots or if you're using LinkedIn, I'll check that as well.

 

Lauren Livak Gilbert (34:31):

Todd, thank you so much for coming on the show. We really appreciate it.

 

Todd Hassenfelt (34:35):

No, thank you for having me. And Peter, Jamie did awesome. We miss you. We miss you though, and we hope you're having a great time wherever you are. We miss you, but Jamie did an awesome job filling in for you.

 

Jamie Clapper (34:47):

Thank you, thank you. Special shout out to Peter for allowing me to fill in for him while he is off far away.

 

Lauren Livak Gilbert (34:56):

Thanks everyone. Thanks again, Todd, for sharing your insights with us today. To learn more about mastering the agentic shelf and driving your digital shelf strategy forward, become a member of the Digital Shelf Institute at digitalshelfinstitute.org. Thank you for being a part of our community.